Here is where I am bewildered,
Considering the outright superiority of PAO/Ester based synthetic engine lubricants does the use of a 5W30 or 0W30 oil regardless of outside temperature and engine age signify elevated engine wear of using the service manual recommended 10W30 fill?
In other words, by running the O or 5 weight with an excellent synthetic i am really robbing peter ( more wear on engine metals) to pay paul (less friction and more performance) ?
That is my million dollar synthetic question of the day.
Synthetic 0W30 and 5W30 use year round vs OE fill 10W30?
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quote:Absolutely not, and I think there are plenty of UOAs posted to this forum that would confirm this. A PAO/ester 0wXX or 5wXX oil will not cause more engine wear than other oils. In fact, the evidence seems to be quite the opposite.
Originally posted by outrun: In other words, by running the O or 5 weight with an excellent synthetic i am really robbing peter ( more wear on engine metals) to pay paul (less friction and more performance) ?
Bror,
A PAO/ester 0wXX or 5wXX oil will not cause more engine wear than other oils. In fact, the evidence seems to be quite the opposite.
Let me rephrase the question on this. The comparison would be all other factors equal in that it would be a Synthetic 0W30 and 5W30 versus a same brand synthetic 10W30.
That is the premise of my question and reasoning. The near definitive answer would be me getting an oil analysis for the next couple changes which will drive operating costs a little higher *lol*
My parents happily run 10W30 in thier daily driver for 186,000miles. For the performance aspect i want to run conceivably run a synthetic 0W30 or 5W30 for year round. I always use Royal Purple or Mobil 1 by the way.
So essentially no harm by going the 0W or 5W route in your opinion? My duration of oil change is 3-5000miles (5k and 4months max) depending on driving habits. Yes, I agree from reading the posts my 3-5k for a great synthetic may be overkill...unfortunately i suffer from an over conservative vehicle maintence regimen *lol*
thanks-
I think there is little difference between the two. The difference is almost in the color of the container. I prefer the 10W in synthetic because there would be less polymer viscosity improver and theoretically the oil should not shear down as much in a 10W than a 5W or 0W. I don't think though that the wear numbers have yielded much if any difference as was mentioned. I use the 10W Mobil all year around in Pa. Personally for Texas I would go with the 10W.
quote:Ah...sorry. I misunderstood what you were asking. All things being equal, I don't think you'd see any difference between the three oils as far as wear metals.
Originally posted by outrun: Let me rephrase the question on this. The comparison would be all other factors equal in that it would be a Synthetic 0W30 and 5W30 versus a same brand synthetic 10W30.
Patman
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The tricky thing about comparing a 0w30 to a 5w30 or 10w30 in the same brand, is that generally speaking the 5w30 and 10w30 versions are very similar in their base oil composition and additive package, while the 0w30 ends up having a much different setup. So with many brands, the 0w30 is simply a much better oil. I don't believe this to be true with Mobil 1 by the way, I don't think their 0w30 is very impressive at all. Their 5w30/10w30 seems to perform much better.
(PS-my wife just peeked over my shoulder and told me "I don't know how you can just talk and talk and talk about oil all the time, how much stuff can you really say about it? Jeez.") ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
Has anyone here compared the Specs. of AMSOIL's "extreme duty" 0W30 to Mobil 1 SS 0W30?
Any comments on the 2 in particular? From looking around they are the only 0W30's I have seen.
quote:What are you basing this on? Mobil has said in press releases that the 0w30 and 0w40 are their most advanced formulations. What do you find to be unimpressive about their 0w30?
Originally posted by Patman: I don't believe this to be true with Mobil 1 by the way, I don't think their 0w30 is very impressive at all. Their 5w30/10w30 seems to perform much better.
quote:There are plenty of other 0w30 and 0w40 oils, especially in Europe.
Originally posted by outrun: Has anyone here compared the Specs. of AMSOIL's "extreme duty" 0W30 to Mobil 1 SS 0W30? Any comments on the 2 in particular? From looking around they are the only 0W30's I have seen.
Patman
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quote:Honestly, a lot of it is just a gut feeling looking at one or two UOAs, and their rather unimpressive specs (compared to other 0w30s) on their website too (especially their HTHS). Compared to 0w30 Amsoil, or the awesome 0w30 German Castrol, this 0w30 Mobil 1 just doesn't impress me. I could be wrong, and maybe we just don't have enough UOA data on it yet. I believe their 0w40 is impressive, and uses a much better overall package, but I personally don't think their 0w30 isn't all that advanced. As always, I've got an open mind though, and the UOAs always tell the real story. [ February 22, 2003, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]
Originally posted by G-Man II:quote:What are you basing this on? Mobil has said in press releases that the 0w30 and 0w40 are their most advanced formulations. What do you find to be unimpressive about their 0w30?
Originally posted by Patman: I don't believe this to be true with Mobil 1 by the way, I don't think their 0w30 is very impressive at all. Their 5w30/10w30 seems to perform much better.
Outrun, unless you're in the Arctic Cirle with temps. of -40C...there will be NO performance difference. All 3 oils are 30 weight and will therefore have roughly the same performance characteristics (assuming the same oil manuf. is compared here). The "O" will shine in sub-artic temps. only w/o added wear. The drawback being...it will be a little thinner overall compared to a 10-30, so some more consumption may occur.
Patman
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A lot of people are scared to run a 0w30 oil in summer because they think it's too thin, but if you look closer at the technical specs you might feel a bit more comfortable.
For instance, Castrol SLX 0w30 has a viscosity of 68.5 at 40c, compared to M1 10w30 which is 61.5. So chances are pretty good that at a lower temp of 30-35c, which is a typical summer temp for a lot of areas, these two oils will be pretty much the same thickness, the 0w30 here might even be a tad thicker! It's at the extreme cold where the 0w30 ends up being much thinner than a 10w30. And comparing that same 0w30, it's got a viscosity of 12.1 at 100c, vs M1 10w30 which is 9.8. So which one of those two oils do you think is better in winter AND in summer?
Also, Amsoil's 0w30 is 57.3 at 40c, so if you felt safe running M1 5w30 in summer, then you should feel safe with Amsoil 0w30 since M1 5w30's viscosity at 40c is 53.7.
I think it's all a mental thing, and I suffered from it in the past also. You see the 0w and you immediately think the oil would be thinner than water. But keep in mind, when oil is cold it's always going to be thicker, so a 0w30 oil is still thicker when cold than a 20w50 oil is when hot.
Well, having run the 0W Amsoil for three years now in one car, other 4 are 10W, I see no difference in oil analysis results. I have analysis on the same car with 10W and a few years on the 0W all changes at one year intervals regardless of mileage with a filter at 6 months. All mileage about 7-9500 in a year.
Perhaps, as someone noted, if I were running 15,000 miles in a year the 0w would be the better bet to hold up. However, it is less expensive to go to the halfway point, drain a quart of 10W and replace it to replenish additives then it is to fill that crankcase with the 0w from the beginning at a $2/quart differential.
I live in a hot summer climate and the 0W does hold up fine, I have absolutely no concerns with that part of it. I don't run the 0w in all cars as I jsut don't see any improved results so why spend the extra $10/change.
quote:I have a feeling that Mobil's new 0w-30 and 0w-40 oils come from the same formulation except the 0w-40 is blended slighly thicker on the higher end viscosity(thus the better HTHS). If you look at the additive packages of the 2 oils, they are very similar and they both hit the market at the same time. I agree we need more UOA but believe they come from the same formulation much like Mobil's 5w-30 and 10w-30 does. If I could get past the large spread of either oil and the potential for shearing vs something like their small spead 10w-30, I might use the 0w-30. It sure looks better on paper than the 10w-30 at both low and high temps.
Originally posted by Patman:quote:Honestly, a lot of it is just a gut feeling looking at one or two UOAs, and their rather unimpressive specs (compared to other 0w30s) on their website too (especially their HTHS). Compared to 0w30 Amsoil, or the awesome 0w30 German Castrol, this 0w30 Mobil 1 just doesn't impress me. I could be wrong, and maybe we just don't have enough UOA data on it yet. I believe their 0w40 is impressive, and uses a much better overall package, but I personally don't think their 0w30 isn't all that advanced. As always, I've got an open mind though, and the UOAs always tell the real story.
Originally posted by G-Man II:quote:What are you basing this on? Mobil has said in press releases that the 0w30 and 0w40 are their most advanced formulations. What do you find to be unimpressive about their 0w30?
Originally posted by Patman: I don't believe this to be true with Mobil 1 by the way, I don't think their 0w30 is very impressive at all. Their 5w30/10w30 seems to perform much better.
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