Okay, lets open this up. I had never heard of this oil until Terry said someting about it. At $30.00 per quart it must be magic. Any one know anything about it?
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MolaKule
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I have asked them to explain their 5 synthetic fluids. We'll see how open they are about their information.
1. If the base fluids are so great, why the need for 3 colliodal additives?
2. There are three different types of oil for three different phases of use? And you have to use thier special filters or you don't get over 50,000 miles?
3. Graphite and PTFE's? You couldn't pay me $30 a quart to use them in my engine.
4. Moly ok, especially if its MoTDC.
I think I'll go out to the garage and start mixing up a batch of engine jet engine oils; that would cost me about $15.00/qt.
1. If the base fluids are so great, why the need for 3 colliodal additives?
2. There are three different types of oil for three different phases of use? And you have to use thier special filters or you don't get over 50,000 miles?
3. Graphite and PTFE's? You couldn't pay me $30 a quart to use them in my engine.
4. Moly ok, especially if its MoTDC.
I think I'll go out to the garage and start mixing up a batch of engine jet engine oils; that would cost me about $15.00/qt.
These guys are the classic snake-oil pitch. Get the money, all of it, up front and if there are problems later on, well, you file for bankruptcy and disappear.
Molakule, if you are familiar with the prices of these compounds, can you tell me if there's any possible way for there to be $30 worth of real value in each quart?
They do have an interesting (if flawed) timeline about the history of synthetics. I wonder how much of it is true?
They also have a funny narrative, especially the part about Castrol and the switch to Group III.
Molakule, if you are familiar with the prices of these compounds, can you tell me if there's any possible way for there to be $30 worth of real value in each quart?
They do have an interesting (if flawed) timeline about the history of synthetics. I wonder how much of it is true?
They also have a funny narrative, especially the part about Castrol and the switch to Group III.
I looked at their site a couple of years ago. Really a lack of credible references. Some pictures of dudes with their 20 year old cars which have that this stuff infor ears. I'd pretty much agree with Bror-snakeoil city.
Probably something like the add I saw a while back in the paper for an oil guaranteed for 100,000 miles between changes. I went to the store and saw it was a SF/CD formulation. I asked if they guaranteed the engine. He said they guaranteed that the oil would still be there at 100,000 (with normal top-off).
I have done some research on this product and evaluated tests provided by Miro.
I asked to visit their blending plant and was told no for security reasons.
I think they are for real but undercapitalized like many products I've seen that have merit but can't get past the big guys.
I am amazed at the small companies who fear my seeing and testing their products lest I smoke them publicly. Little do they know that if the product is for real what a benefit the light of analysis reports can do for them when interpreted properly.
I asked to visit their blending plant and was told no for security reasons.
I think they are for real but undercapitalized like many products I've seen that have merit but can't get past the big guys.
I am amazed at the small companies who fear my seeing and testing their products lest I smoke them publicly. Little do they know that if the product is for real what a benefit the light of analysis reports can do for them when interpreted properly.
MolaKule
Staff member
So far, Miro's answers have not been without some contradictions.
They have 2 "groups" of synthesized hydrocarbons and 4 groups of esters plus some proprietary chemistry for a total of 15 base fluids.
Added to this are three types of colloidal FM's. Most of their chemistry seems to be based on (but not limited to) the German developments of '44 to '66.
As soon as our communications are complete and my questions have been answered satisfactorily, I will post my technical evaluation and biases.
I usually support the underdog, the maverick, and the entrepeneur if the theory is supported by experimentation and testing.
They have 2 "groups" of synthesized hydrocarbons and 4 groups of esters plus some proprietary chemistry for a total of 15 base fluids.
Added to this are three types of colloidal FM's. Most of their chemistry seems to be based on (but not limited to) the German developments of '44 to '66.
As soon as our communications are complete and my questions have been answered satisfactorily, I will post my technical evaluation and biases.
I usually support the underdog, the maverick, and the entrepeneur if the theory is supported by experimentation and testing.
Supposedly, Miro's Uncle was an Italian Chemist and engineer who was forced to work for the Nazi's in the turbine engine lube program,thus the theories you so astutely recognized Molekule.
Miro himself was a Eastern European trapped in the communist side where he did his lube work.That may explain his terms seeming contradictory.
The allies freed the Uncle who came to the US and Canada and ended up as a developmental chemist for Texaco who has a lot to do with dexcool and other products we use today. He retired and offered the Synlube formula to NASA,DOD,after Texaco showed no interest because of the cost and supposed reuse capability of the lubricants.
Miro himself was a Eastern European trapped in the communist side where he did his lube work.That may explain his terms seeming contradictory.
The allies freed the Uncle who came to the US and Canada and ended up as a developmental chemist for Texaco who has a lot to do with dexcool and other products we use today. He retired and offered the Synlube formula to NASA,DOD,after Texaco showed no interest because of the cost and supposed reuse capability of the lubricants.
MolaKule
Staff member
Terry,
I was referring to his response that the base lubes were superior, but that the 3 colloidal Fm's did the actual job of lubrication. Now, if one has superior base lubes of 5+ esters, one shouldn't need Friction modifiers, in my humble view.
I was referring to his response that the base lubes were superior, but that the 3 colloidal Fm's did the actual job of lubrication. Now, if one has superior base lubes of 5+ esters, one shouldn't need Friction modifiers, in my humble view.
I forget what each component is in the synlube mix. They would never actually send any to test. Miro claims that it is 100% synthetic,even the carrier or diluent oils are no less than high quality PAO.
In this business until I test it myself I can't say for sure, even then I am limited by $,time, and being able to get some return on investment, especially ASTM bench testing.
Synlube seems to use the Schaeffers theory of having boundary layer lube at all times.
In this business until I test it myself I can't say for sure, even then I am limited by $,time, and being able to get some return on investment, especially ASTM bench testing.
Synlube seems to use the Schaeffers theory of having boundary layer lube at all times.
MolaKule
Staff member
Please bear in mind the following discussion is not based on actual testing, but mostly on communications between the respodent and myself.
From Terry's response, it appears he made similar statements to us both.
Miro Kefurt was the respondent with whom I sent my questions and seemed to answer most questions up to a point, and then he wanted to know if I wanted a quote. So I sent him two specs on two different autos and received a quote for the SynLube Kits. Now, I can't really fault him since he is in the business of selling his formalations. Miro states his products "are not 'consumer' oriented nor based on price, but 22 years of experience of research from 1944 to 1966..." Actually, some of the fluids he named are of much more recent development.
Base Oil: As stated earlier, his base oil consists of five versions of PAO consisting of different molecular weight and number of carbon chains (not unusual in PAO/ester formulations), three different poylols (unnamed), POE, and four proprietary fluids (unnamed), for a total of 15 synthetic fluids.
I was suprised that he was unable to answer a question regarding PE (Miro thought it was phosphate esters). Maybe it was a language problem but I had to explain that it was called PE or PTE (as found in the technical literature), which is Pentaerythritol, a hindered ester and a base oil primarily used in high-temp jet engine lubes and in military diesel applications. My reasoning was that at $30 per quart, it should at least contain PE. Syn-Lube does not contain PE (PTE).
It also does not contain the recently developed methylacrylate "co-oligimers," which is a synthesized (not blended) mixture of PAO's and esters. BTW, these recently developed methylacrylate "co-oligimers," were developed in Germany!
Miro never commented as to why neither the PTE esters or co-oligimers were not used.
Additives: The only additives he would discuss were the "colliodals'." There are Graphite, Moly, and PTFE (Teflon). He states his lube base oils really don't need them and that the base oils are good for 4,200 hours run time (Not qualified as to what conditioons or what engine(s)). Miro stated that his colloidal additives do the actual lubrication. Well, not really and here's why: Now the base oils are mostly used for hydrodynamic lubrication (thick oil film regime) whereas ZDDP and the colloids of Moly, are FM/EP boundary lubes are used in the regime where hydrodynamic lubes thin out and boundary friction occurs. In other words, no matter how good your base lube is, it needs a good boundary lube of either esters, ZDDP, Moly, or whatever to prevent met-to-metal contact under high loads to prevent surficial contact.
Apparently the colloidal Graphite is used to fill interfacial "voids," and the PTFE is to reduce gearing and chain noise, and Moly to act as boundary lube. You know my opinion of PTFE and graphite. Graphite and PTFE are great for antisieze compounds, but not much else.
The SynKits consist of:
1. Initial Fill motor oil (As many liters or quarts required for the vehicle).
2. One liter of "ADD" oil.
3. One Microglass Motor oil Filter.
4. One Trimagnet (Filter magnet?)
5. Instruction Book.
6. Engine Labels that say, "Do Not Drain," & "Do Not Mix").
Price quoted for my kits was $146 to $172.00 dollars (I assumed to be US dollars and not Euros).
Miro also stated in a 7/06/02 exchange that their lubes can tolerate up to 33% by volume of water or coolant and still protect the engine, even with head gasket leaks.
I would respectfully disagree. The only fluid I am aware of that can tolerate that much water is the synthetic fluid called Polyalkyleneglycol (PAG) which is fully miscible in water. It can continue to lubricate (at low speeds and loads) with up to 50% of water included. Miro never stated that his fluids contain PAG's and I am glad they do not, since PAG's are not compatible with mineral oils, silicone oils or other synthetics.
So as soon as I win the lottery, I will test these fluids and report back the analysis.
From Terry's response, it appears he made similar statements to us both.
Miro Kefurt was the respondent with whom I sent my questions and seemed to answer most questions up to a point, and then he wanted to know if I wanted a quote. So I sent him two specs on two different autos and received a quote for the SynLube Kits. Now, I can't really fault him since he is in the business of selling his formalations. Miro states his products "are not 'consumer' oriented nor based on price, but 22 years of experience of research from 1944 to 1966..." Actually, some of the fluids he named are of much more recent development.
Base Oil: As stated earlier, his base oil consists of five versions of PAO consisting of different molecular weight and number of carbon chains (not unusual in PAO/ester formulations), three different poylols (unnamed), POE, and four proprietary fluids (unnamed), for a total of 15 synthetic fluids.
I was suprised that he was unable to answer a question regarding PE (Miro thought it was phosphate esters). Maybe it was a language problem but I had to explain that it was called PE or PTE (as found in the technical literature), which is Pentaerythritol, a hindered ester and a base oil primarily used in high-temp jet engine lubes and in military diesel applications. My reasoning was that at $30 per quart, it should at least contain PE. Syn-Lube does not contain PE (PTE).
It also does not contain the recently developed methylacrylate "co-oligimers," which is a synthesized (not blended) mixture of PAO's and esters. BTW, these recently developed methylacrylate "co-oligimers," were developed in Germany!
Miro never commented as to why neither the PTE esters or co-oligimers were not used.
Additives: The only additives he would discuss were the "colliodals'." There are Graphite, Moly, and PTFE (Teflon). He states his lube base oils really don't need them and that the base oils are good for 4,200 hours run time (Not qualified as to what conditioons or what engine(s)). Miro stated that his colloidal additives do the actual lubrication. Well, not really and here's why: Now the base oils are mostly used for hydrodynamic lubrication (thick oil film regime) whereas ZDDP and the colloids of Moly, are FM/EP boundary lubes are used in the regime where hydrodynamic lubes thin out and boundary friction occurs. In other words, no matter how good your base lube is, it needs a good boundary lube of either esters, ZDDP, Moly, or whatever to prevent met-to-metal contact under high loads to prevent surficial contact.
Apparently the colloidal Graphite is used to fill interfacial "voids," and the PTFE is to reduce gearing and chain noise, and Moly to act as boundary lube. You know my opinion of PTFE and graphite. Graphite and PTFE are great for antisieze compounds, but not much else.
The SynKits consist of:
1. Initial Fill motor oil (As many liters or quarts required for the vehicle).
2. One liter of "ADD" oil.
3. One Microglass Motor oil Filter.
4. One Trimagnet (Filter magnet?)
5. Instruction Book.
6. Engine Labels that say, "Do Not Drain," & "Do Not Mix").
Price quoted for my kits was $146 to $172.00 dollars (I assumed to be US dollars and not Euros).
Miro also stated in a 7/06/02 exchange that their lubes can tolerate up to 33% by volume of water or coolant and still protect the engine, even with head gasket leaks.
I would respectfully disagree. The only fluid I am aware of that can tolerate that much water is the synthetic fluid called Polyalkyleneglycol (PAG) which is fully miscible in water. It can continue to lubricate (at low speeds and loads) with up to 50% of water included. Miro never stated that his fluids contain PAG's and I am glad they do not, since PAG's are not compatible with mineral oils, silicone oils or other synthetics.
So as soon as I win the lottery, I will test these fluids and report back the analysis.
Mite use in a demolition derby or figure 8 racing,lol, with blown radiators and see what happens.......
Their Website is a JOKE! Their product probably is too! I'd like to see a Blackstone report on their snake oil!
Wow talk about dragging up an ANCIENT thread.
CourierDriver I really appreciate you bringing this back from the depths. This is definately the most informative posts I have ever seen about this product.
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Wow talk about dragging up an ANCIENT thread.
Has to be the oldest thread ever resurected on BITOG.
Wow talk about dragging up an ANCIENT thread.
Has to be the oldest thread ever resurected on BITOG.
Wow and they seem to be trying to push this in the additive section.
This is very good information MolaKule and I think it indicates well the level of understanding that this guy who developed this supposed super oil has.
I did use Tufoil in the past but I agree, based on what I know today, that PTFE has no purpose whatsoever in an automotive engine. The chemical combinations that chemists developed that include moly are much more effective.
The claims on how long this oil can be used seem to vary quite a bit and range anywhere from 50,000 to 150,000 miles. I have heard even 300,000 miles. According to what demarpaint found out at the Synlube website the motor oil has to be changed every 50,000 miles. With this Synlube costing something like $30.00 a quart a person could do some 4 or more oil changes with a product like the new Pennzoil Ultra.
I kept trying to point out problems with water buildup, oxidation, and physical and chemical contamination of oil with the supporters of this Synlube and they seem either to not understand or just ignore it.
I did use Tufoil in the past but I agree, based on what I know today, that PTFE has no purpose whatsoever in an automotive engine. The chemical combinations that chemists developed that include moly are much more effective.
The claims on how long this oil can be used seem to vary quite a bit and range anywhere from 50,000 to 150,000 miles. I have heard even 300,000 miles. According to what demarpaint found out at the Synlube website the motor oil has to be changed every 50,000 miles. With this Synlube costing something like $30.00 a quart a person could do some 4 or more oil changes with a product like the new Pennzoil Ultra.
I kept trying to point out problems with water buildup, oxidation, and physical and chemical contamination of oil with the supporters of this Synlube and they seem either to not understand or just ignore it.
Triple_Se7en
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The member you replied to is / was well-loved here. Have not read any comments from Johnny since Fri Sep 07 2012 06:44 PM.
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