SynLube Lube-4-Life discussion

[3 Mad Ponchos]

I had an interesting exchange with Mr. Kefurt, the SynLube Lube-4-Life guy. Apparently one of his customers tipped him off to the synthetic oil life study.

He started off by telling me to quit wasting money on the study and switch to his product. I outlined my concerns about SynLube, that is, the presence of PTFE; the fact that it is a 50-weight; and the lack of any documentation on his product anywhere. I tried to start a dialogue with him so that I might better understand how SynLube works.

Instead, I got in reply a rambling rant that, at various times, suggested that I was falsifying the test results, and the miles on the engine; that I had never really done a VOA; that the aberrant fuel reading at the 1k mark indicated an engine failure; that the service life of a GM engine is only 70k miles; that I must have rebuilt the engine myself prior to the test; that Mobil 1 has no moly in it; that the laboratory is incompetent; and that the study will provide no useful information.

Now, I don't mind if people are skeptical of my study, but I thought some of this was a little uncalled for. Unfortunately he did not find the time to address my technical queries and said that although he had 17,000 oil analyses on SynLube, he wouldn't share them unless I wanted to pay a buck apiece for them. In all I was rather surprised and disappointed by the level of hostility.

We'll see if he sends anything else along, perhaps something more useful.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[Patman]

That guy isn't a very good businessman. If there was any slim chance at all of him getting any business at all from anyone on here, it's now out the window. Not that anyone on here would actually put a thick PTFE based oil in their engines anyways.

 

[Pablo]

Maybe he just knows his product is inferior?

I really know nothing of "synlube", but if he said that cr@p then he truly doesn't know what he is talking about.

You aren't faking it, are you

? (Remember I said as a joke (awhile back), you are just doing this to collect money....tee hee hee

)

 

[unDummy]

Verbal or email exchange?
I'm not gonna choose sides if I wasn't a witness.
Post the emails.
Or, when making calls, have someone else witness.

Hearsay can destroy anybody's reputation or product however unfounded.

Bad customer service will destroy a business all by itself.

Anyone hear using Synlube?
If not, don't make any judgements until you deal with them or use their products.

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

E-mail. Don't worry, I'll be posting them in the feedback section of the study, probably tonight.

I'm actually thinking of moving all the SynLube stuff to a different page so as to not distract from the rest of the study, since the SynLube thing is starting to get out of hand. These guys are like "Oil Trekkies" or "Syntologists" or something.

I've had someone volunteer to submit SynLube to independent analysis at their own expense. If he follows through it could be interesting.

Pablo, I have all my results available in .pdf format to anyone who wants to review them.

Along with a 2"-thick stack of research papers.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[Spector]

When I inquired about this product it was the constant mandatory analysis as to when to replenish the additives, the cost and the email correspondence was also arrogant. Most (not all)of the cars in his barn are old vintage as well, or not daily drivers) if I recall and I am not sure he provides any warranty with the product. Well, a money back but that is useless for this type of product. I want to see engine replacement warranty if it fails.

Also,l year or so ago I emailed several of his contacts for their experiences, never got a reply!

[ May 13, 2003, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Spector ]

 

[MolaKule]

Last year we had a duscussion "Search and Ye Shall Find:"

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000155

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

Ah yes, I remember that thread, though I had forgotten some of the details.

If I am lucky enough to get my hands on some of the stuff, I will certainly ask for advice regarding what kind of test regimen to put it through. It seems like it might be interesting to subject it to something more intense than the usual VOA.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[Terry]

Molekule, Thanks for the indepth description of the Synlube basics. I am also troubled by the PTFE AND Graphite components. I think POE in some form is used.

I wonder if the Uncle is still the formulator with Miro doing the marketing out of a location near Las Vegas, NV.

I have seen fairly extensive UOA results evaluated a few years ago that I am not at liberty to share. I must say I was favorably impressed with Miro's data and results.

I can not confirm those at this date with our own testing.

 

[buster]

Oil is cheap. It blows my mind how anyone would want to keep an oil in a car that long. Are we that **** lazy today? It takes 30 mins to change the **** oil. How many good results do we even see longer then 12k mile drains? Not too many.

[ May 13, 2003, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Rallyfan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 3 Mad Ponchos:
I had an interesting exchange with Mr. Kefurt, the SynLube Lube-4-Life guy. ... He started off by telling me to quit wasting money on the study and switch to his product. ...I got in reply a rambling rant that, at various times, suggested that I was falsifying the test results, and the miles on the engine; that I had never really done a VOA; that the aberrant fuel reading at the 1k mark indicated an engine failure; that the service life of a GM engine is only 70k miles; that I must have rebuilt the engine myself prior to the test; that Mobil 1 has no moly in it; that the laboratory is incompetent; and that the study will provide no useful information.

Cheers, 3MP

---

I don't know what to make of this, really; it does sound like he's a quack, but people here say he's got a science background nonetheless. He may not be used to western-style peer review - it sure doesn't sound like it. He may also have been at this long enough and it may be hard enough on him that it's taken on a crusade nature, can't say. But dismissing a study right off with no valid criticism of the methods or any clue as to *why* other than a possible dislike of the results doesn't impress me... Bad form on his part.

Thanks for the study!!!

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

As promised, here is the e-mail exchange to date:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cave/syn-tolo.html

With these feedback pages, if you want to read them in the proper order, you have to start at the bottom and go up.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[segfault]

I loved this quote from the SynLube website:

"TBN is not relevant in Gasoline fueled engines that utilize Unleaded Gasoline"

3MP, have you considered including the new German version of Castrol in your test?

[ May 13, 2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: segfault ]

 

[unDummy]

The results will be interesting.

The profit margin on $30 per quart oil must be a lot.

[ May 13, 2003, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: unDummy ]

 

[Shannow]

quote:

---

I have checked with guys at GM research the LS1 engine is designed for 7 year or
70,000 mile life with UP TO 100,000 or maybe 120,000 possibly possible.

That is why it is guaranteed for emissions that long, see owner manual emission
warranty.

It may run at 100,000 or even 120,000 miles but it will NOT meet EPA emissions by
then, i.e., by industry standard it should be taken out of service as the "useful
life" is officially over.

200,000 miles you are just dreaming no matter what oil you are using and yes both the
oil consumption and fuel in oil is indicative or serious mechanical problem(s).

---

Beats the crap out of me why he'd be selling a "150,000 mile oil" then.

 

[Spector]

Interesting dialogue with Miro.

All he has to do, in my opinion, is provide several oil analysis samples for maybe a dozen cars and that would go a long way to establishing credibility.

The users of oil, like the individuals that post to this board, have opinions. They (Synlube users) say the oil is working fine. Now, over time opinions and anecdotal evidence gain some credibility if you know the source and over time many of the people that post to this board gain credibility, Bob, Terry etc. Those that post to the accolades of Syn Lube, well,they are probably not into oil (stick the synlube in and go) and their opinions would not seem to be as credible. We certainly would have no idea who they are.

Wish he would just provide some reports from Analysts as he says he has.

 

[Bror Jace]

Thanks for posting that link to the old thread. I was pretty sure we had discussed this stuff before.

I stand by my initial assessment of Synlube: Loob-4-Life. It has all the earmarks of a classic “snake oil” product. The company seems to have taken the approach that the more ingredients they can claim as contents of their product, the better it is. Well, most of us here know that isn’t true. Many ingredients will not necessarily work any better than a few well-chosen ones and the chance for additive clash is at an all-time high. This effect need not be dramatic before protection is compromised and/or deposits begin to be formed, etc … At the very least, some useful compounds’ benefits may be completely negated when in the presence of others.

’Kule did a substantial amount of looking into the formula as well as critical analysis of the components … much more than I think this stuff is worth. The narrative on their site is wacky, ranting and factually inaccurate enough to conclude this is not a serious approach to superior lubrication.

Yes, Ponchos, please keep that discussion well separated from your analysis. The wacky, nonsensical ratings of that guy and the absurdness of their product will merely detract from what you are trying to do with the 10K drains and reputable oils. The Synlube shenanigans are a side show at best and a freak show at worst.

--- Bror Jace