Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants

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MolaKule

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Thanks SHANNOW. Here's another update.
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Here is an updated list of dedicated GL-4 and a few GL-5 MTL's, Updated 12/7/2014: A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of [email protected] (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) and SAE 70W to 75W or so are: 1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W, 2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3, 3. Honda MTII or MTF 2. 4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC 5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2] B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 [email protected] versions (About the same viscosity as a the original DexronIII/Merc) 1. Royal Purple's Synchromax 2. Ravenol MTF-2 3. Honda MTF 4. VW part number G052512A2 5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid 6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2 C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range: 1. Redline MTL 75W80 2. Amsoil MTL 3. GM Synchromesh’s 4. Volvo MTF 645 5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a [email protected] and SAE 75W85: 1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt ( SAE 75W90) range would be: 1. Amsoil MTG 2. Redline MT-90 3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90 5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS 7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems.
 
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MolaKule

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Originally Posted By: Pablo
Mola - I love your list. One small typo: 2. Amsoil MTF (not MTL)
You're right and thanks for correction! Here's hopefully the untypo-ed list. eek Here is an updated list of dedicated GL-4 and a few GL-5 MTL's, Updated 12/7/2014: A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of [email protected] (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) and SAE 70W to 75W or so are: 1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W, 2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3, 3. Honda MTII or MTF 2. 4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC 5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2] B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 [email protected] versions (About the same viscosity as a the original DexronIII/Merc) 1. Royal Purple's Synchromax 2. Ravenol MTF-2 3. Honda MTF 4. VW part number G052512A2 5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid 6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2 C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range: 1. Redline MTL 75W80 2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt) 3. GM Synchromesh’s 4. Volvo MTF 645 5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a [email protected] and SAE 75W85: 1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt ( SAE 75W90) range would be: 1. Amsoil MTG 2. Redline MT-90 3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90 5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS 7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems.
 
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Do THFs, tractor hydraulic fluids, Caterpillar TO-4 driveTrain oils and Eaton CD50s have an automotive/light truck manual transmission, PTO or transfer case application?
 

MolaKule

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MolaKule

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Just an additional comment: We should emphasize again that the GL-4 rating for gear lubes is primarily a gear and bearing protection rating for systems that are not as heavily loaded as those found in hypoid differentials or Heavy Duty truck transmissions. It should NOT be assumed than ANY gear lube with the GL-4 rating is suitable for Manual Transmissons. Dedicated or application specific MTL's not only have the necessary Anti-Wear chemistry to attain a GL-4 rating, but also have the correct viscosity and friction modification for synchronized transmissions. Bottom line is, there is more to a Dedicated or application specific MTL than just a GL-4 rating.
 
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MolaKule Your information in this thread has been invaluable thank you! May I ask, do you (or anyone) know where VWs G 052 171 A2 would fall in your list of oil weights? Thx!
 

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As far as grade, it would be about a 70W80:
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B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 [email protected] versions (About the same viscosity as a the original DexronIII/Merc) 1. Royal Purple's Synchromax 2. Ravenol MTF-2 3. Honda MTF 4. VW part number G052512A2 5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid 6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2
 

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Originally Posted By: BLKGTTDI
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
As far as grade, it would be about a 70W80:
Since my previous post I've found this. "VW TL 521 71 Gearbox oil SAE 70W-75 (GL-4), manual transaxle ([email protected]) Volkswagen TL52171 (G52) G 052 171 A1 Volkswagen TL52171 (G52) G 052 171 A2" http://syntheticoil-europe.eu/en/141-g-052-171-a1-g-052-171-a2 6.5 cSt ! Isn't this super thin!?
Not really, as this has been the trend in transmission fluids since about 2005. People are just now realizing that many Manual Trannies also use Low Viscosity (LV) dedicated manual transmission fluids. I said it would be "about" since the Kinematic Viscosity varies over a wide range of SAE /API 'grades.' The important thing is the Kinematic Viscosity as tested at 40C and 100c, and not the outdated and ridiculous "grade" range.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
You get a quart of each and have it sampled and know for sure.
CLueless here.. How & where would I go about getting it sampled? Thx for the help!
 

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Here is an updated list of dedicated GL-4 and a few GL-5 MTL's, Updated 8/12/2015: A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of [email protected] (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) and SAE 70W to 75W or so are: 1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W, 2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3, 3. Honda MTII or MTF 2. 4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC 5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2] B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.5 [email protected] versions (About the same viscosity as a the original DexronIII/Merc) 1. Royal Purple's Synchromax 2. Ravenol MTF-2 3. Honda MTF 4. VW part number G052512A2 5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid 6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2 7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402) C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range: 1. Redline MTL 75W80 2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt) 3. GM Synchromesh’s 4. Volvo MTF 645 5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a [email protected] and SAE 75W85: 1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt ( SAE 75W90) range would be: 1. Amsoil MTG 2. Redline MT-90 3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90 5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS 7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems. C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range: 1. Redline MTL 75W80 2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt) 3. GM Synchromesh’s 4. Volvo MTF 645 5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a [email protected] and SAE 75W85: 1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt ( SAE 75W90) range would be: 1. Amsoil MTG 2. Redline MT-90 3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90 5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS 7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems.
 
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Here is an updated list of dedicated GL-4 and a few GL-5 MTL's. NOTE: This list is only a “suggested” list of currently known MTFs that may be applicable as a replacement. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or are worn. A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.x [email protected] (About the same viscosity as a Dexron VI) and SAE 70 or so are: 1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W, 2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3, 3. Honda MTII or MTF 2. 4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC 5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2] B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.5 [email protected] versions [70W75] (About the same viscosity as the original DexronIII/Merc) 1. Royal Purple's Synchromax 2. Ravenol MTF-2 3. Honda MTF 4. VW part number G052512A2 5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid 6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2 7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402) 8. Pentosin Pro Gear 70W75 (Australia) C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range: 1. Redline MTL 75W80 2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt) 3. GM Synchromesh’s 4. Volvo MTF 645 5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a [email protected] and SAE 75W85: 1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt ( SAE 75W90) range would be: 1. Amsoil MTG 2. Redline MT-90 3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90 5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well) 6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS 7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems.
 
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The issue of the paper/cellulose blocker rings on the 1998-2000 Tremec T56 manual transmissions was brought up early in this thread. I have a low mileage 1999 so this was an important issue to me when I considered doing a fluid change 3 years ago. I read for hours on this topic with most of it coming from the LS1Tech.com website. What I came up with is that Tremec still only specifically recommends 2 choices for the T56, regular ATF DEX III and Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. This they state because they are the only 2 they have extensively tested and feel confident in approving their use. It doesn't mean other choices can't work well. Others have tried Synchromesh, synchromax, RP, Amsoil ATF, etc. with varying degrees of success. I read a number of blogs describing T56 failures using the higher grade MTL's in the pre-2001 models. I don't recall reading about any failures/problems associated with DEX III, Mobil syn ATF, or the GM MTL. While I would certainly like the beneficial aspects of a higher viscosity synthetic MTL's, I'm not ready to risk blocker ring swelling/failure to get there. At B5 on the list of MTL's GM's Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid is listed. From what I've read, this is merely rebranded ATF (no license renewal on the old stuff), probably to satisfy the need to say they have what you require. GM phased out the DEX III in 2007. And they didn't want you to confuse the often incompatible ATF DEX IV and VI with the old DEX III. I don't know if the newer GM product (#88861800) has the higher % of additives that regular MTL's would have. I would doubt it. Dexron III spec H ceased to exist as a licensed by GM transmission fluid in December 2006 and has been superceded by Dexron VI. Any transmission fluid labeled Dexron III is not monitored by GM so you're on your own as far as the formula meeting the original specs from GM. As noted above and in several tech bulletin, do not use Dexron VI in place of Dexron III unless specifically told to. At this point, p/n 88861800 is the only approved fluid for your transmission. LS1Tech.com on the subject
 
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