Symptoms of bad breaker. Lost all loads

[mk378]

That may not be a backwire receptacle, it could be a backstab that someone tightened the screws on, which does nothing for the push-in connection. The screws are provided for conventional (wrap the wire around the screw) installation, or when more than one wire needed to be connected.

If it's a backwire, loosening the screw will let the wire come out.

 

[gathermewool]

Is a GFCI a good idea for a fridge outlet? You will have to yank the fridge out to see if the circuit tripped?

True, though the fridge rolls easily and access behind it is easy. I guess a GFCI breaker is the best option. Good news, this side of the circuit is opposite the sink. Bad news, the sink-side is not GFCI-protected either...

 

[Hall]

preferably with a GFCI

Is a GFCI a good idea for a fridge outlet?

My understanding is you don't put things with motors on GFCI outlets. You end up with too many annoyance tripping.

 

[gathermewool]

That may not be a backwire receptacle, it could be a backstab that someone tightened the screws on, which does nothing for the push-in connection. The screws are provided for conventional (wrap the wire around the screw) installation, or when more than one wire needed to be connected.

If it's a backwire, loosening the screw will let the wire come out.

The receptacle was in there tightly, so I’ll have to check when I replace it.

What’s the thought on why it suddenly stopped working? All of the leads were super tight in the receptacle.

My understanding is you don't put things with motors on GFCI outlets. You end up with too many annoyance tripping.

I’ve heard of issues with DC motors, but not AC. Besides, with GFCI being spec’d for pretty everywhere these days there’s bound to be a GFCI motor interface. Blender, fan, turntable, vacuum, etc.

 

[Hall]

No back-stabbing for this one, either!

I wiggled the receptacle and it’s still good; solid 120VAC. One of the four terminals’ screws was a LITTLE bit loose and the others were only snug, but the leads were fully inserted into the terminals.

There are (3) types of connections possible on different outlets: 1) Use the screw terminals with a 'hook' in the wire, 2) back-stab (wire goes into a hole/slot with a spring-loaded "clamp" that holds the wire, and 3) back-wire which uses a clamp that is tightened or loosened with the side screws. 1 and 3 are very good, safe connection types with # 1 still preferred over # 3 (by professionals). Can't tell from the pictures for sure but yours looks like # 3. When you say one of the screws was loose, that could be the cause of your bad connection or issue. Tighten the screws as tight as you can and give the wires a firm tug. If they budge at all, either replace the outlet or use the screw terminals with a hooked wire end.

 

[Hall]

Besides, with GFCI being spec’d for pretty everywhere these days there’s bound to be a GFCI motor interface. Blender, fan, turntable, vacuum, etc.

Yes, it can happen and often can't be avoided. In the case of a dedicated outlet, this is when it's not advisable. On the other hand, the first usage of GFCIs was for outdoor pool equipment, hot tubs, etc which have motors.

 

[gathermewool]

gotcha

 

[gathermewool]

Well, losing a pool pump wouldn’t make me feel as stupid as losing the contents of my fridge due to an spurious trip. That’s a fact!

 

[Hall]

I've replaced the switches in our house with "Decora" style ones (the flat, rocker type) and have started replacing outlets with matching Decora style. Any outlets that get plugged in and unplugged. This is all of them along with kitchen counter as well as some around the house that we plug in the vacuum, etc. Outlet for the TV, for example, is generally plugged in and not touched for a year or longer... I am getting industrial-spec (or commercial-grade) outlets for the ones "used" a lot. Why ? This is what happens with the $0.50 outlets after 15-20 years:



This is just the construction of those cheap outlets. It's the 3rd one that this has happened to in the 6 years we've been here.

 

[Hall]

Well, losing a pool pump wouldn’t make me feel as stupid as losing the contents of my fridge due to an spurious trip. That’s a fact!

I suspect you misunderstand why there are GFCI outlets in use. It's not to protect the equipment ! It's to protect people. This is why any outlets near water have to be GFCI. Circuit breakers aren't for protection equipment either, it's to protect the wiring to/from the breaker box and the wiring devices. In the grand scheme of things, the equipment is the sacrificial lamb. That said, equipment typically has it's own internal protection (fuses normally).

You mention losing the contents of your fridge and that's a good reason not to use a GFCI on it too. What if it trips and you don't know it for a while ? Your fridge will stop working and can only maintain some cold for ~24 hours (???) presuming no one opens the door.

 

[gathermewool]

I suspect you misunderstand why there are GFCI outlets in use. It's not to protect the equipment ! It's to protect people. This is why any outlets near water have to be GFCI. Circuit breakers aren't for protection equipment either, it's to protect the wiring to/from the breaker box and the wiring devices. In the grand scheme of things, the equipment is the sacrificial lamb. That said, equipment typically has it's own internal protection (fuses normally).

You mention losing the contents of your fridge and that's a good reason not to use a GFCI on it too. What if it trips and you don't know it for a while ? Your fridge will stop working and can only maintain some cold for ~24 hours (???) presuming no one opens the door.

Haha, no I get it. We knowingly moved into a house with broken grounds or no grounds upstairs. We had them install GFCI er’where. Then we installed AFCI due to Al. When that didn’t work we replaced everything with Cu.

I have a family of four. If our fridge goes more than 8 hrs shut that would be a miracle.