Switch to full syn. Which of these 3?

[Minou]

I have a 05 Corolla 5 sp. and I want to switch to full synthetic oil and OEM filter. After reading a lot on this board, would it make sense to go from 3 dino OCI/yr to 2 Syn. OCI per year? I don't drive a lot and I would still comply with Toyota's maximum time interval of 6 months. The OCI saved would cover some of my costs. Probably overkill, but we have extreme weather conditions and I would feel more comfortable doing this.

Thing is, I'm not too familiar yet with all the data and some I can not find.

Should I chose (both 5W-30) Mobil 1, Shell Formula Shell 100% Synthetic or (Shell) Rotella
T SB 0W-40?

I only found TBN for the Rotella at 9.
TBN not available for the other 2?
Why don't they all list TBN?

Concerning Viscosity Kinematic, is it best if the greater the number? If so, the Rotella neatly beats the other 2 (86.2/14.9 vs 58/10.5 for the Shell 100% and 53.7/9.7 for the M1).

As for the Viscosity index, here too, the Rotella trumps the others with 182 (165 for the Shell and 169 for the M1).

Now, Cold Crank Simulator, the smaller the number at any given temp is better, right? The M1 at 3600 is best here and all 3 have a pour point of
-48C.

Do I concur that the Rotella is far superior to the other 2? If I can find it at a price similar to the others.

Feel free to comment. I'm a Newbie...

 

[goldwing]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Minou:
I have a 05 Corolla 5 sp. and I want to switch to full synthetic oil and OEM filter. After reading a lot on this board, would it make sense to go from 3 dino OCI/yr to 2 Syn. OCI per year? I don't drive a lot and I would still comply with Toyota's maximum time interval of 6 months. The OCI saved would cover some of my costs. Probably overkill, but we have extreme weather conditions and I would feel more comfortable doing this.

Thing is, I'm not too familiar yet with all the data and some I can not find.

Should I chose (both 5W-30) Mobil 1, Shell Formula Shell 100% Synthetic or (Shell) Rotella
T SB 0W-40?

I only found TBN for the Rotella at 9.
TBN not available for the other 2?
Why don't they all list TBN?

Concerning Viscosity Kinematic, is it best if the greater the number? If so, the Rotella neatly beats the other 2 (86.2/14.9 vs 58/10.5 for the Shell 100% and 53.7/9.7 for the M1).

As for the Viscosity index, here too, the Rotella trumps the others with 182 (165 for the Shell and 169 for the M1).

Now, Cold Crank Simulator, the smaller the number at any given temp is better, right? The M1 at 3600 is best here and all 3 have a pour point of
-48C.

Do I concur that the Rotella is far superior to the other 2? If I can find it at a price similar to the others.

Feel free to comment. I'm a Newbie...

---

I would run M1 5X30 and an OEM Toyoto Filter.Do a UOA at the first regular scheduled Toyoto oil change schedule on the M1. Follow the manufactures maintenace schedule during the warranty period. "Save all of your receipts if performing your own maintenence. This avoids lots of finger pointing if their is an engine problem during the warranty period."

 

[JHZR2]

Id go with M1 and a denso first time fit or nippon filter. OEM is fine too...

Do a UOA the first time, I think thats smart. After that, stick to the non-severe schedule (if one exists) for one OCI, and run another UOA. If it looks good, stick to that.

We run 13k mi OCIs in my father's 94 previa (2.4L 4-cyl) only shows 8ppm Fe. I think M1 is a good fit for toyota engines.

JMH

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

Minou:
I have a 05 Corolla 5 sp. and I want to switch to full synthetic oil and OEM filter. After reading a lot on this board, would it make sense to go from 3 dino OCI/yr to 2 Syn. OCI per year? ....

Should I chose (both 5W-30) Mobil 1, Shell Formula Shell 100% Synthetic or (Shell) Rotella
T SB 0W-40? ....

---

The Mobil 1 5W-30 is the only full synthetic (polyalphaolefin base stock) of the three.

There's really no reason for to go with the 0W-40 in a Corolla. You'll lose gas mileage and gain nothing. 5W-30 is what Toyota recommends.

Keep your receipts for the oil and filter and save one of the empty oil containers each change since you're still under warranty. There's no point in jeopardizing your warranty.

The OEM filters are fine. The M1-103 Mobil 1 filter is a high efficiency filter. The Purolator L14476 or the slightly longer L14477 is a cheaper alternative. The Purolator Pure One PL14476 is a bit more expensive but higher efficiency and less expensive than the Mobil 1. And there are other good choices in filters.

 

[D Stewart]

I changed my 03 Corolla S (same engine as yours) over to Mobil 1 at about 5000km. It now has 182,000km on it and is as clean as new. I use 5w30 as recommended and a quality filter (sometimes Toyota) and change every 20,000km.

 

[Ugly3]

Mobil 1 5w30 is the oil of choice!

 

[John in the ATL]

Minou,

You might consider the Esso XD 3 0w-30 that is available in Canada. From what I have seen on the board and user feedback, it looks like a good candidate for the winters in the Great White North at a reasonable price.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009157#000000

http://www.esso.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENCVLESEsso_Xd-3_extra.pdf

 

[Minou]

Thanks folks for the great info.

Questions?

I looked at the XD-3, also from feedback from this board. Apparently that it is harder to find here since the Esso/Mobil merger. Will look for it and report any info I might get. Bulk stations around Montreal should have it. There is also confusion regarding this new full PAO syn. XD-3, as opposed to the old ones that I remember from my youth. Funny that Esso makes very little splash with it and that the oil is marketed and branded with the other "regular" XD-3's.

Similarly, the Rotella T SB 0W-40 is said to be 100% syn. and is marketed with syn. blend Rotellas.

Mickey M,
Can you look in this spec data from Shell and tell if the Rotella T SB 0W-40 is indeed a full PAO synthetic or a blend? Or do I gather that a 100% branded syn. oil can have basestock that is not syn.? You say that the M1 being the only full syn. PAO basestock of the 3.
http://www.shell.ca/code/products/commercial/lubricants/tips/tips-header/1-15.pdf

D Stewart,

Wow, great performance and lots of mileage. But how do you know that your engine is as clean as new? Did you have a UOA of your own or pulled the valve cover to see?

For the foreseeable future, I'll be doing the exact opposite of you.

So I will probably go to the readily available M1 and OEM filter or XD-3, if I can find it at a fair price.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

Minou:
.... Can you look in this spec data from Shell and tell if the Rotella T SB 0W-40 is indeed a full PAO synthetic or a blend? Or do I gather that a 100% branded syn. oil can have basestock that is not syn.? You say that the M1 being the only full syn. PAO basestock of the 3. ....

---

Without expensive testing it's impossible to say what the base stock is unless Shell tells you.

However, Shell and its captive brands, Pennzoil and Quaker State, moved to a "Group III" hydrocracked oil for their "synthetics" a few years ago. This is a mineral oil which has undergone special refining and catalytic transformation which changes its molecular structure.

The result has many but not all of the characteristics of a polyalphaolefin but at a lower price, which is not passed on to the consumer. In Europe these oils are not called "synthetic".

All things being equal including price, the polyalphaolefin base stock is preferable.

You might simply drop an e-mail to Shell's customer service and ask them if the Rotella T SB 0W-40 is a polyalphaolefin (PAO), a Group III, or something else.

 

[olympic]

While XD3 is a great oil at a reasonable price, it doesn't carry the API Starburst. Something to keep in mind while your car is under warranty. With Toyotas reputation, I doubt it's anything to be concerned with.

But if you want to follow the manufacturers warranty rules, M1 seems like the logical choice.

 

[Minou]

"But if you want to follow the manufacturers warranty rules, M1 seems like the logical choice."

Makes sense. M1 and OEM filter might be best for now.

But I might as well drop an e-mail to Shell and see what they tell. I sent them one yesterday concerning my brother's 04 Golf TDI PD and they answered back within 24 hours.

 

[pitzel]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Minou:
But I might as well drop an e-mail to Shell and see what they tell. I sent them one yesterday concerning my brother's 04 Golf TDI PD and they answered back within 24 hours.

---

Could you put the information you acquired from your inquiry with respect to the PD on the record?

Thank you

 

[Cyprs]

I had an Altima with 22K with 0-30 XD3 used and now soon a new X-Trail, my Nissan dealer looked at the XD3 0-30 spec sheet and they fully recommended it's use, they were impressed with XD3 syn and 3.71 litre price. My QR25DE ran even quieter on this 0-30 XD3, cant wait to put this 0-30 XD3 in the same engine in the X-Trail after 2K kms dino seat in.

Cyprs

 

[BlazerLT]

Esso XD-3 0w30 Synthetic.

Can be purchased at any Esso distributor. Check the phonebook.

Best price and best oil around.

 

[Pat in Speedway]

My wife has an '04 Corolla and I just follow the Passport Maintenance booklet and change the oil every 5k. I switched to Mobil 1 after 10K on the car (5W-30 Fall & Winter changes, 10W-30 Spring & Summer changes). I used various oil filters, but I'm switching over to Toyota brand (whatever it is they have at the dealer). Like Goldwing mentioned, save those receipts! And

to BITOG!

 

[Minou]

I just called the only Esso distributor in Montreal. The address was wrong on the pdf and the phone number has changed. They are hidden in an old industrial sector of the city...

XD-3 Extra 0W-30; $45.84C (case of 12 X 1 liter)= $3.82C/liter.

XD-3 Extra 0W-40; $51.00C case = $4.25C/liter.

Hard to beat, isn't it?

Nosed in the stores yesterday and M1 5W-30 is around 7-8$C/liter.

No reply from Shell to the e-mail I sent yesterday. (kind of question that you need to pass to a real representative, not a communication spin doctor...)

 

[Minou]

Here is the answer I got from Shell regarding their Rotella T SB 0W-40...

"Dear Mr. Minou (sic),

Thank you for visiting Shell Canada's web site.

In response to your inquiry, our technical department has advised me that Rotella T SB 0W40 is PAO based and a group IV.

I hope this answers your question. Should you require further information, please contact our technical department at 1-800-661-1771 option 2.

Regards,

Tara Anderson
Customer Service Representative /
Centre de service à la clientèle
Shell Canada Ltd / Produits Shell Canada

Bonjour,

I have this question concerning Shell's Rotella T SB 0W-40 oil.

Is the Rotella T SB 0W-40 a polyalphaolefin (PAO), a Group III, or something else?

Thanks"

My brother has been using this Rotella in his 04 F150 and everything he has, for a while and is pleased with it. Price is in the $4.C/liter from the local Shell bulk distributor. If only they made it in a 0W or 5W-30?

I have ordered my XD-3 today and will get it next wednesday as they didn't have any more 4l jugs.
A case (4 X 4l) is C$61.64, or $3.85/liter.

The rep on the phone also offered M1 0W-30 at C$44.70 for a 6l jug = $7.45/l. Almost double the price of the XD-3...

[ February 02, 2005, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Minou ]

 

[21Rouge]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cyprs:
I had an Altima with 22K with 0-30 XD3 used and now soon a new X-Trail, my Nissan dealer looked at the XD3 0-30 spec sheet and they fully recommended it's use, they were impressed with XD3 syn and 3.71 litre price.

---

Cyprs, were't you surprised that the dealer; generally a conservative, by the book (manual

) entity, endorsed the use of XD 0W-30 which as Olympic noted does not have the required API Starburst?

At least when using German Castrol, which also does not possess the starburst, I take a little comfort from the fact that Castrol does make a 0W-30 which is energing conserving with the starburst and this is not easily differentiated on my sales receipt which just shows "SYNTEC 0W-30"