SWA CPT loading bags on the 737

[GON]

Neat graphic, something I haven't seen before. A SWA 737 CPT loading bags into the belly of the aircraft after discovering no baggage handlers were present. I have a gut feeling this CPT is an awesome pilot and truly cares about the passengers.

Caption:
"Southwest Captain and Pilot expedite an already delayed flight in Vegas with no baggage handlers available… they deplaned and loaded all our bags. NOW THAT IS TEAMWORK AND STEPPING UP FOR THE CUSTOMERS"

 

[Astro14]

I’ve seen that before from SWA. Always wonder what that Captain is thinking.

Look, this is not really possible on a widebody.

If your 60+ year old captain gets out, say, in Paris, and tries moving LD3 cargo containers with the loader, one of two things will happen - he damages the airplane driving the loader, and the flight cancels or, he hurts his back trying to push a 2,000# LD3 from the cart onto the loader, and the flight cancels.

Not really a good idea at all - the pilot isn’t trained for this, and if he gets hurt, the flight cancels. If he does it wrong, then there is the risk of cargo shifting.

This is why you don’t see experienced flight attendants helping customers put bags in the overhead.

If they get hurt doing so, the flight cancels for lack of crew, and they’re hurt on the job. As a fellow passenger, I happily put bags in the overhead for shorter, or elderly, or just plain struggling, folks, I do it all the time - but the FA’s will not touch it, for good reason.

This particular guy looks like a hero to the passengers, but he looks like a bozo to the rest of us that work in the industry.

I reckon he desperately wanted to get home, too, after five days on the road, with SWA crew scheduling jerking him around. He figured this was the only way it was going to happen.

But it wasn’t smart, I doubt it was for the customers, and there is zero chance you will see an experienced Captain take that risk.

 

[GON]

Astro, as you know SWA doesn't have a single widebody in its fleet. Loading bags on a 737 is easier than loading bags on a Greyhound bus. I think the CPT did an honorable action. The alternative may have been the crew times out, 170 PAX get deplaned and have to get lodging for the night, etc. Mission first, people always.

My hasty guess is this is a culture and mindset at SWA- very different than the mindset at the big three.

 

[Astro14]

Astro, as you know SWA doesn't have a single widebody in its fleet. Loading bags on a 737 is easier than loading bags on a Greyhound bus. I think the CPT did an honorable action. The alternative may have been the crew times out, 170 PAX get deplaned and have to get lodging for the night, etc. Mission first, people always.

The 737 was designed to be loaded easily - that is the reason for the Max problems - the landing gear is short and stubby, to make loading easier, and you cannot fix the low rider or the clearance problems with bigger engines. Sure, it’s easy to load. Does that pilot know how to load it? How to secure it? How to get the weight and balance correct? Unlikely. Maybe, but unlikely. So, there is risk to the flight.

There is cancelation risk to the flight with this action.

There is personal risk to the captain, and FO, themselves, in this action.

Aviation is about avoiding risk. Doing risky stuff is generally frowned on, and for good reason.

I know many SWA Captains - they all agree with me that this was stupid. It was done once before, a while ago. It was risky. It is fixing a problem that SWA created at personal risk to the crew. An OJI (on the job injury) hurts the pilot, and hurts their pay, and hurts all the people whose flights get canceled for lack of crew while this pilot is out on an OJI.

If the world was really “mission first, people always” - then SWA would have baggage handlers. SWA would take care of its people so that they would show up for work because they were well-paid, and well motivated. But they don’t.

The SWA pilots are fed up with be mistreated. This pilot was likely fed up with SWA, and this was done in frustration so that he could get home. While this “mission” was to get people to weddings, funerals, meetings, cruises, whatever, none of that stuff is worth injury to the pilot. The pilot is not wearing his back support, like the baggage folks wear.

Let’s take a similar scenario - you are rushed into microsurgery, to be performed by one of the best hand surgeons in the country. It will repair that severe injury you got from attaching a fifth wheel trailer, where your hand is partially severed, and she can re-plant everything, but only if they get you into surgery in the next 12 hours, before the tissue starts to die.

That morning, the surgeon hurt herself because she was doing some other strenuous task at the hospital, for which she was not trained, and she then has to cancel the microsurgery that was scheduled for you. You risk losing your hand. It may not survive without her immediate intervention in reattaching tendons, nerves, and blood vessels.

That surgeon isn’t a “hero” for the strenuous task, they are a fool, for doing something for which they aren’t trained, and having a consequence that hurt someone else.

This guy is your hero.

But he is a fool. He took risks, to the flight, to himself, that he should not have taken. Nothing honorable in that.

 

[4WD]

The 737 was designed to be loaded easily - that is the reason for the Max problems - the landing gear is short and stubby, to make loading easier, and you cannot fix the low rider or the clearance problems with bigger engines. Sure, it’s easy to load. Does that pilot know how to load it? How to secure it? How to get the weight and balance correct? Unlikely. Maybe, but unlikely. So, there is risk to the flight.

There is cancelation risk to the flight with this action.

There is personal risk to the captain, and FO, themselves, in this action.

Aviation is about avoiding risk. Doing risky stuff is generally frowned on, and for good reason.

I know many SWA Captains - they all agree with me that this was stupid. It was done once before, a while ago. It was risky. It is fixing a problem that SWA created at personal risk to the crew. An OJI (on the job injury) hurts the pilot, and hurts their pay, and hurts all the people whose flights get canceled for lack of crew while this pilot is out on an OJI.

If the world was really “mission first, people always” - then SWA would have baggage handlers. SWA would take care of its people so that they would show up for work because they were well-paid, and well motivated. But they don’t.

The SWA pilots are fed up with be mistreated. This pilot was likely fed up with SWA, and this was done in frustration so that he could get home. While this “mission” was to get people to weddings, funerals, meetings, cruises, whatever, none of that stuff is worth injury to the pilot. The pilot is not wearing his back protection.

Let’s take a similar scenario - you are rushed into microsurgery, to be performed one of the best hand surgeons in the country. It will repair that severe injury you got from attaching a fifth wheel trailer, where your hand is partially severed, but only if they get you into surgery in the next 12 hours, before the tissue starts to die.

That morning, the surgeon hurt herself because she was doing another strenuous task at the hospital, for which she was not trained, and she then has to cancel the microsurgery that was scheduled for you. You risk losing your hand. It may not survive without her immediate intervention in reattaching tendons, nerves, and blood vessels.

That surgeon isn’t a “hero” for the strenuous task, they are a fool, for doing something for which they aren’t trained, and having a consequence that hurt someone else.

This guy is your hero.

But he is a fool. He took risks, to the flight, to himself, that he should not have taken. Nothing honorable in that.

Same with the Master of a ship - he has to protect his health with the possible exception of an emergency …
This is no emergency … Just NPT …

 

[GON]

@Astro14, we have very different mindsets on this. I suspect a flight crew might be more at-risk eating food sold in the airport, than loading bags in the cargo hold of an aircraft. I don't see a banning of flight crews from eating airport food (as opposed to food from a controlled source). Dozens of scenarios could be presented of risk to flight crews in a passenger terminal that are quite possibly more likely that risk the flight crew than loading bags in a pinch into a belly of a 737.

Yes, SWA appears to be changing as they continue to grow. SWA likely is losing its "maverick- underdog mentality", as they become the largest air carrier in the US by certain measurement, with 22 percent of the US market share.

I fully acknowledge that safety, standards, and discipline are the cornerstone of preventing aircraft accidents- and part of that is all involved in the aircraft "know their lanes".

 

[Astro14]

@Astro14, we have very different mindsets on this. I suspect a flight crew might be more at-risk eating food sold in the airport, than loading bags in the cargo hold of an aircraft. I don't see a banning of flight crews from eating airport food (as opposed to food from a controlled source). Dozens of scenarios could be presented of risk to flight crews in a passenger terminal that are quite possibly more likely that risk the flight crew than loading bags in a pinch into a belly of a 737.

Yes, SWA appears to be changing as they continue to grow. SWA likely is losing its "maverick- underdog mentality", as they become the largest air carrier in the US by certain measurement, with 22 percent of the US market share.

I fully acknowledge that safety, standards, and discipline are the cornerstone of preventing aircraft accidents- and part of that is all involved in the aircraft "know their lanes".

We disagree on the relative risks. Airport food is another topic, and ancillary to this discussion. Airport shuttles would be another risk area that needs to be addressed, again, in another thread.

I would not be OK with the risks to the flight, including improper loading, improper load securing, and cancelation from injury, and I am certainly not OK with the risk to the person, who was not wearing the appropriate back protection, or safety gear, including required hearing protection, reflective vest, etc.

“Mission first, people always” would include training for those people performing a task, and PPE/proper gear for those people.

Both of which were lacking in this scenario, leading to both risks for the flight and risks to the person.

This is not a praiseworthy action by the captain. I can promise that LAS, and the FAA, require the PPE, so it calls into question his judgement. What other rules did he ignore on that flight, in order to go “mission first”? If people are willing to cut corners on safety rules in one area, where else are they willing to do so?

This is “mission first, screw the risk, cut corners, don’t care what happens to the people”. Not smart, not reasonable.

 

[edyvw]

@Astro14, we have very different mindsets on this. I suspect a flight crew might be more at-risk eating food sold in the airport, than loading bags in the cargo hold of an aircraft. I don't see a banning of flight crews from eating airport food (as opposed to food from a controlled source). Dozens of scenarios could be presented of risk to flight crews in a passenger terminal that are quite possibly more likely that risk the flight crew than loading bags in a pinch into a belly of a 737.

Yes, SWA appears to be changing as they continue to grow. SWA likely is losing its "maverick- underdog mentality", as they become the largest air carrier in the US by certain measurement, with 22 percent of the US market share.

I fully acknowledge that safety, standards, and discipline are the cornerstone of preventing aircraft accidents- and part of that is all involved in the aircraft "know their lanes".

Flight crew does not have control over airport food. The flight crew has absolute control over whether they would risk injury by loading bags.
People love these videos. They create good, tingly feelings around their hearts. But the real question is, why is there no ground crew or enough ground crew? I sometimes have to fly SWA, but I avoid them like I avoid Frontier. The reason behind a lot of issues at SWA is not growth per se; it is penny-pinching at every corner. SWA became the largest domestic airline a long time ago.