Sustina 0W-20 trumps Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy with lowest MRV

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Thanks to dailydriver, we now have the extreme cold performance spec's for the Nippon Oil made Sustina 0W-20:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2764915&page=3

For years Mobil 1 0W-20 was the undisputed extreme cold temp' champ with it's MRV @ -40 of 10,400cP. Well that has been eclipsed by the non PAO based (although it is a GP III+ GTL equivalent) Sustina with a MRV of 9630cP. It's other spec's are as follows:
CCS @-35C 3550cP
KV40 32.69cSt
KV100 7.94cSt
VI 229
NOACK 13%

It's is also the lightest oil at all other temp's, due in large
part to it's unprecedented 229 VI.


Sorry Buster.
 
What? NOT PAO??!??!? BUT I HAVE TO HAVE PAO BECAUSE IT IS MAGICALLY A SUPERIOR VALUE TO THAT FAKE SYNTHETIC.
 
Uhhh...
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Lets not forget the humongous price difference between these two products. The Toyota seems to be the best deal if you really want high VI and do not want to pay an arm and a leg.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Capa
Lets not forget the humongous price difference between these two products. The Toyota seems to be the best deal if you really want high VI and do not want to pay an arm and a leg.


Also toyota dealerships and Walmarts are everywhere making the Toyota oil and the M1 easy to find, and find at a reasonable price. The sustina would have to be ordered from your local napa, thats not my idea of convenience. If i dont find oil on sale i buy it at walmart, i personally like being able to get good oil whenever i want it and not having to wait on a shipment.
 
Quote:
Sorry Buster.


LOL, sorry for what? I understand your thinking, but I don't judge an oil based on one set of criteria. I'm a fan of TGMO and Sustina, but there are other attributes that make up a good oil and in certain situations, Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy would trump both of those oils. In terms of being lighter and offering better cold starting and fuel economy, the Sustina and TGMO are the best.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
High NOACK for a synthetic, no?


Clearly a majority Grp III, not that there is anything wrong with that.

One of the advantages Mobil has is the availability of Visom, which has a very low NOACK for a Group III+.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/UK-English/Basestocks/PDS/GLXXENBSKEMVisom.aspx

Quote:
These base stocks are designed to have very high viscosity index as well as superior low temperature performance and an excellent viscosity-volatility relationship.


I had the lowest oil consumption ever with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20 SN. It may have to do with the 50% PAO and Visom, assuming that's what it is.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The MRV for Mobil 1 0W-20 is given by ExxonMobil as 9,200 cP at -40*C.

Sustina's is 9,630 cP? That's higher (worse) than Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy.

Or is XOM's PDS wrong?

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-20.aspx

Yes that is the spec' from the USA Mobil website but it's dated 04/11.
The Cdn 2012 Mobil website is below:
http://www.mobil.ca/Canada-English-LCW/carengineoils_products_mobil-1_afe-0w20.aspx#

The MRV is 10,400cP and the HTHSV is lower at 2.6cP.
I believe both oils are still basically the same although they are made in different formulating plants/countries.
Your simply getting variation from batch to batch, although the formulation does change over time. I believe Mobil is using less and less PAO in each revised formulation. So if I had to guess, I'd say the Cdn version is more representative of what's currently available. I would think that Mobil USA will be updating it's PDS for the 0W-20 in the not too distant future.

The main difference between Sustina and AFE is that it is very much lighter at more typical cold start temp's as are the Toyota 0W-20 and Mazda 0W-20. But up until now Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy still had an advantage at extreme cold temp's; there was nothing in the same 10,000cP or lower MRV ball park. Now there is.
 
Cool, I just wasn't sure if someone did some testing to disprove XOM's 9,200 number, or if that was an old PDS, or, etc.

Thanks for the explanation. Interesting that the Canadian version has an HT/HS viscosity of 2.6 vs. the US version's 2.7. Significant? Probably not, but interesting nonetheless.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: cchase
High NOACK for a synthetic, no?


Clearly a majority Grp III, not that there is anything wrong with that.

One of the advantages Mobil has is the availability of Visom, which has a very low NOACK for a Group III+.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/UK-English/Basestocks/PDS/GLXXENBSKEMVisom.aspx

Quote:
These base stocks are designed to have very high viscosity index as well as superior low temperature performance and an excellent viscosity-volatility relationship.


I had the lowest oil consumption ever with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20 SN. It may have to do with the 50% PAO and Visom, assuming that's what it is.


Also esters.
 
Originally Posted By: Capa
Lets not forget the humongous price difference between these two products. The Toyota seems to be the best deal if you really want high VI and do not want to pay an arm and a leg.


I'd rather use the new Mazda GF-5 High Moly stuff than that for about the same cost, except that it is even harder for me to find/get than the Sustina, currently.
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: cchase
High NOACK for a synthetic, no?


Clearly a majority Grp III, not that there is anything wrong with that.

One of the advantages Mobil has is the availability of Visom, which has a very low NOACK for a Group III+.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/UK-English/Basestocks/PDS/GLXXENBSKEMVisom.aspx

Quote:
These base stocks are designed to have very high viscosity index as well as superior low temperature performance and an excellent viscosity-volatility relationship.


I had the lowest oil consumption ever with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20 SN. It may have to do with the 50% PAO and Visom, assuming that's what it is.


Also esters.


Are we sure that the AFE has; PAO, POE, AND Visom all in the base stock currently?

I am NOT 'dissing' EOM's excellent products (I have used them in the past), JUST asking for clarification, that's all.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: cchase
High NOACK for a synthetic, no?


Clearly a majority Grp III, not that there is anything wrong with that.

One of the advantages Mobil has is the availability of Visom, which has a very low NOACK for a Group III+.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/UK-English/Basestocks/PDS/GLXXENBSKEMVisom.aspx

Quote:
These base stocks are designed to have very high viscosity index as well as superior low temperature performance and an excellent viscosity-volatility relationship.


I had the lowest oil consumption ever with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w20 SN. It may have to do with the 50% PAO and Visom, assuming that's what it is.


Also esters.


Are we sure that the AFE has; PAO, POE, AND Visom all in the base stock currently?

I am NOT 'dissing' EOM's excellent products (I have used them in the past), JUST asking for clarification, that's all.
wink.gif


I doubt very much that there is any ester content in the AFE line,or any mobil product anymore. I could be mistaken however I doubt we will ever know for sure since mobil guards that info in a room in the basement of fort Knox,or they may have the recipe locked up in guantanamo bay somewhere.
 
Mobil tech did confirm to me their use of PAO and ester, along with other unnamed stocks. They also said they consider all of the M1 line a grp 4. Again with the exception of some obscure oil, all have a blend of base stocks making a better product than straight PAO. Straight from a secret hidding place.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I doubt very much that there is any ester content in the AFE line,or any mobil product anymore. I could be mistaken however I doubt we will ever know for sure since mobil guards that info in a room in the basement of fort Knox,or they may have the recipe locked up in guantanamo bay somewhere.
They forgot to guard the mobil 1 FAQ
lol.gif

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/What_Is_Ester_Oil.aspx
 
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