Supposedly bought Pennzoil HD-30, but it's API SN?

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Darkfire

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Made a call to a store to see if they specifically had Pennzoil SAE HD-30 for a piece OPE. Guy said they did. I went in looking for it, and all I saw was what appeared to me as regular PCMO SAE 30 because it was SN rated. And I thought, how can an HD oil be SN rated because then it would mean a lot less zinc.

The store sticker below the rack of oil said HD-30, but there was no HD-30 printed on the bottle itself, it's just PYB SAE 30. The UPC code on it is 0 7161193539 5. When I payed for this stuff at the register, it rang up as "Pennzoil HD-30 motor oil".

But this makes no sense because when you so a search for HD-30 Pennzoil online, you will see photos of it where it shows right on the bottle "HD-30". Mine does not, so I don't get what's going on here. Did the store completely misrepresent this product, saying it's HD when it isn't? I was under the impression that this oil was no more than SJ rated, or SM at most.

My main concern is that I intend to use this oil to break in a new rototiller, and I want to make sure it is HD so that it has a good high level of ZDDP in it for break in. Is this oil ok to use for this if in fact, it's not HD? Should I go back and return it for Castrol HD-30 which they also had on the shelves, and that actually said HD-30 on the bottle?


Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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I will take a wild stab at this. The pictures you see on the interweb are of the old formulation.

The Pennzoil HD-30 (also Valvolene, and probably Castrol) have been changing API status along with the multi-vis oils (albeit, it seems to lag a bit).

I think the "HD" in HD-30 is an obsolete hold over from the 1990's. As soon as it moved beyond SJ, it's additive levels have dropped below what I would consider "heavy duty", especially when it turned to SM, and now SN.

So, yes, I believe a lot of people are/were getting duped if they thought HD-30 SM and SN are "heavy duty" in terms of additive level. It's about time they removed the HD from the label. Now, the web sites and store shelf stickers need to catch up.

To get heavy duty, high zinc 30 wt. you need to buy dual rated oil (HDEO, diesel/gas) like Rotella or Delo. Even the Kohler branded oil is HDEO and is an SJ oil: http://www.kohlerengines.com/accessories/kohlerOil.htm
 
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One would assume it would have more ZDDP than a 5w-30 or 10w-30 SN/GF-5. It certainly would be allowed to have more, since a straight 30 isn't a resource conserving grade. Whether it actually has more or not is another issue. We see plenty of HM oils that aren't ILSAC rated that don't have higher amounts of ZDDP, even though they're allowed to.

If it were me, I'd use it, but only after I use up my ridiculous stash of part full bottles of HM and HDEOs.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
It certainly would be allowed to have more, since a straight 30 isn't a resource conserving grade.


That's something I didn't know and obviously takes the steam out of my argument. Thank you.
 
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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
I will take a wild stab at this. The pictures you see on the interweb are of the old formulation.

The Pennzoil HD-30 (also Valvolene, and probably Castrol) have been changing API status along with the multi-vis oils (albeit, it seems to lag a bit).

I think the "HD" in HD-30 is an obsolete hold over from the 1990's. As soon as it moved beyond SJ, it's additive levels have dropped below what I would consider "heavy duty", especially when it turned to SM, and now SN.

So, yes, I believe a lot of people are/were getting duped if they thought HD-30 SM and SN are "heavy duty" in terms of additive level. It's about time they removed the HD from the label. Now, the web sites and store shelf stickers need to catch up.

To get heavy duty, high zinc 30 wt. you need to buy dual rated oil (HDEO, diesel/gas) like Rotella or Delo. Even the Kohler branded oil is HDEO and is an SJ oil: http://www.kohlerengines.com/accessories/kohlerOil.htm

Thanks for the info. Here is an example of exactly what I'm talking about:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1402199

Now contrast that to this:

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=156835

So yeah it appears that they quietly changed their API rating and downgraded the oil. Looks like I'll have to return it and either get cash back or get Chevron SAE 15W-40 Delo or Mobil 15W-40 Delvac 1300.
 
If you can find Rotella 30 weight it should meet your needs. Mine is API SJ.
 
dont get caught up in the api sj or sn rating game, any sae30hd or sae30 will do just fine regardless of sj or sn. imo sj is a back speced oil, yes it can still be found, but sm/sn is the latest spec, wich superseeds the sj spec. some will argue, but ive been using sae30 sm/sn since it has been available, and my fleet runs just fine, many with 1000's of hours on them. its a small engine, not the space shuttle.
 
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Well, that Sam's club add says it is SL. So either they have old stock, or their advertisement is old.

eljefino, Rotella 30 wt. is no longer gasoline rated (no SJ), but everyone "seems" to think it is still o.k. for gas OPE.

I'm curious now what the zinc level of Pennzoil "HD-30" is/was, based on what Garak said (Valvolene, too).

clarklawnscape, it's tough to argue with your real life experience. But, the "idea" that OPE is better off with higher additive oils persists too! I agree it is not a life/death decision, but more of a feel good decision, either way.
 
According to Shell PDS's (just search Pennzoil in US for complete listing), Pennzoil makes 3 different SAE 30 grades.

Pennzoil HD 30
Pennzoil Long Life 30 (HDEO)
Pennzoil SAE 30 Motor Oil

You may be able to confirm which one of these that oil is by the different API specification listed or the product code.
 
Originally Posted By: Darkfire
So yeah it appears that they quietly changed their API rating and downgraded the oil. Looks like I'll have to return it and either get cash back or get Chevron SAE 15W-40 Delo or Mobil 15W-40 Delvac 1300.


"Downgraded" is a loaded word here. ZDDP content is not the be all and end all of oils. However, I would wonder why the oil companies would bother going to an SM or SN specification for a straight 30. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that requires an SN straight 30. I'm not going to run straight 30, SN or not, in my G under warranty. So what's the point?

The thing is, we don't know what the ZDDP levels are. We're just guessing. The product data sheets at the SOPUS site are a mess, to further muddy the waters. You could return it, if it's not a hassle, and go with the HDEO. If you're terribly worried about ZDDP levels, find some HDEO (from a known company of course), with an obsolete dual rating specification. You'll find they have ZDDP levels of 1400 to 1500 ppm.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If you can find Rotella 30 weight it should meet your needs. Mine is API SJ.
+1
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If you can find Rotella 30 weight it should meet your needs. Mine is API SJ.

After doing some extensive research, I solved the problem with a different solution: Valvoline VR1 SAE 30.
 
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