Super Tech ST3600 oil analysis, with clicker valve type by-pass

[Filter guy]

As done by Wearcheck USA in Cary, NC. Just received in the mail today.

Contamination-Normal
Wear- Normal
Oil condition-Normal

Specifics:
5,825 miles since last oil change.
Mobil 1 0-20w oil.
24,608 total miles on vehicle.

Tested Previous Current
Contamination
Silicon-----42-------37
Potassium---0--------3.3
Sodium-----7.7------6.1
Sulfation--27-------22
Nitration--35-------16
Glycol--none--same
Fuel% -- Water% -- Soot% ---0----same

Wear
Iron--------13------8.4
Nickle------1.2-----1.3
Chromium-----0.9----0.8
Copper------12------5.8
Aluminum----4.4-----3.5
Tin---------1.2-----0.0
Lead--------39------24
Silver------0-------0
Titanium-----0.2---0.2

Oil Condition
Boron------117-----124
Barium------1.7----0.0
Calcium-----2878---2561
Magnesium----24-----17
Molybdenum---84-----72
Sodium-------7.7----6.1
Phosphorus---874----780
Sulfer------2388----1981
Zinc--------1094----922
Visc@ 100C--10.3----9.75
Oxidation ---15-----39


So there you have it. Clicker style by-pass valve Super Tech ST3600 filter used 5824 miles. Previous change before this one was also ST3600 clicker valve filter and Mobil 1 0-20W oil but 9198 miles between changes.

I have now switched to the E-core which has even better media than the old clicker valve style element. So I would expect a continued drop in wear contaminants. With the exception of silicon because I will be changing my air filter soon.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Check your air filter element and associated duck work! Silicon is way to high and the wear numbers reflect this!

 

[T-Keith]

John is correct, silicon is way too high, lead is very bad. You need to worry about your air filter, not the oil filter.

 

[Filter guy]

As i'm using Fram air filters

, and have the last 2 times i've change it, i'm due to change it this weekend. So i'll have a look..

However, i won't be using their Brazilian built ones anymore..

 

[Ugly3]

Filter Guy - I have now switched to the E-core which has even better media than the old clicker valve style element. So I would expect a continued drop in wear contaminants. With the exception of silicon because I will be changing my air filter soon.

My understanding is that the particles being reporded in a UOA are too small for any oil filter to collect. In order to see the effect of a filter you have to have a particle count reported, even then you don't know what the particles are composed of. I would expect to see little if any change in wear metals resulting for a change in the filter.

 

[labman]

This was on your Taurus that requires a working bypass to protect the filter media? You will cut it open? Funny that Fram builds air filters that look as good or better than other ones.

 

[Alan]

I think you'll see a drop in silicon with a new air filter as oppose to an increase.

I got an element reading of 3 silicon in my UOA using a purolator I had installed at the beginning of the interval.

Some posted a UOA that used no air filter and still got pretty low silicon

!

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, one would reason that if your ST had issues ..and that unfiltered oil were circulating around in BIG chunks ..that a few more little chunks would be present. This isn't a stellar report, but it would seem that any issues that you have are with air filtration instead of oil filtration.


Is there an equivalent of insolubles?? That's usually what all us novices use to guage oil filtration.

 

[Filter guy]

Gary..I listed everything off the report. There is a more expensive oil anlysis that also test TBN ( for diesels) or TAN. So TAN..Total acid number may help. I think i'll try to get some of those off my buddies..

Free is always good...

As for the Fram air filters..I don't have a problem with them obviously because I use them, it's just that I didn't pay attention until I was installing the last one that it was built in Brazil. I'd rather not use the Brazilian version..

btw..let me also add I bought the car used. It had almost 7,400 miles on it. The dealer had put on a Motocraft filter and changed the oil ( Motocraft as well I presume). I ran that about 2,300 miles before switching to Super Tech and Mobil 1.

[ May 06, 2005, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Filter guy ]

 

[Filter guy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ugly3:
Filter Guy - I have now switched to the E-core which has even better media than the old clicker valve style element. So I would expect a continued drop in wear contaminants. With the exception of silicon because I will be changing my air filter soon.

My understanding is that the particles being reporded in a UOA are too small for any oil filter to collect. In order to see the effect of a filter you have to have a particle count reported, even then you don't know what the particles are composed of. I would expect to see little if any change in wear metals resulting for a change in the filter.

---

You can contact the oil analysis people but I do believe they are testing the same 1-40 micron particle sizes that the filter is supposed to remove. Not sub 1 micron.

So, imho, when particle counts go up..the filter is less efficient. So if you constantly switch brands of filters you may not notice as much. If you stay with brand A for a number of tests and then switch to brand B..then you may be able to do some comparison testing of your own over multiple report anlysis. Not one test result v one test result.

 

[Winston]

Does the air filter fit snugly in the housing? Haven't there been problems reported with loose fitting air filters?

One more thing. Did your cut up the filter? Can we see pics? Was the filter full of oil?

 

[Filter guy]

No I didn't cut open my oil filter. As the report shows there wasn't a problem. It was a clicker valve style.

I now have an E-core on the car. I offered for lubeowner to cut it open for me because by the time I go to Oregon at the end of September I should be about ready to change it. If not i'll change it anyway. Apparently he is not available.

 

[reyjay1]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Filter guy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ugly3:
Filter Guy - I have now switched to the E-core which has even better media than the old clicker valve style element. So I would expect a continued drop in wear contaminants. With the exception of silicon because I will be changing my air filter soon.

My understanding is that the particles being reporded in a UOA are too small for any oil filter to collect. In order to see the effect of a filter you have to have a particle count reported, even then you don't know what the particles are composed of. I would expect to see little if any change in wear metals resulting for a change in the filter.

---

You can contact the oil analysis people but I do believe they are testing the same 1-40 micron particle sizes that the filter is supposed to remove. Not sub 1 micron.

So, imho, when particle counts go up..the filter is less efficient. So if you constantly switch brands of filters you may not notice as much. If you stay with brand A for a number of tests and then switch to brand B..then you may be able to do some comparison testing of your own over multiple report anlysis. Not one test result v one test result.

---

I think this has been posted here numerous times by the oil lab members, but the analysis is blind to particles above about 5 microns. For larger particles I think Stinky recommends the microscope or particle counts or both depending how deep you want to go.

 

[Winston]

Well, there was "not a problem" when Bob did his oil analysis on his care with NO oil filter. It would still have been interesting to know if the media had ripped or the ADBV valve had hardened..

 

[reyjay1]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Winston:
Well, there was "not a problem" when Bob did his oil analysis on his care with NO oil filter. It would still have been interesting to know if the media had ripped or the ADBV valve had hardened..

---

I used to have a '60 rambler that never had an oil filter on it and no where to put one from the factory. Car was 20 years old and still went.

 

[John W. Colby]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Winston:
Well, there was "not a problem" when Bob did his oil analysis on his care with NO oil filter. It would still have been interesting to know if the media had ripped or the ADBV valve had hardened..

---

OTOH, if you don't cut it open, you can't possibly find a problem that you don't want to see.....

 

[Filter guy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by John W. Colby:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Winston:
Well, there was "not a problem" when Bob did his oil analysis on his care with NO oil filter. It would still have been interesting to know if the media had ripped or the ADBV valve had hardened..

---

OTOH, if you don't cut it open, you can't possibly find a problem that you don't want to see.....

---

OTOH..if the pleats had ripped or torn or there be some problem with the element or the by-pass opening up to much..the wear count would go up ( way up), not down.

So I didn't need to cut open the filter.
The proof is there to read.

 

[John W. Colby]

quote:

---

OTOH..if the pleats had ripped or torn or there be some problem with the element or the by-pass opening up to much..the wear count would go up ( way up), not down.

So I didn't need to cut open the filter.
The proof is there to read. [/QB]

---

Let's be quite clear, I am not an automotive genius, or even a mechanic. OTOH I am intelligent and I can read.

1) In this very forum I read that the clearances between the bearings and the race walls can be less than 5 microns. Likewise for other wear surfaces.

2) In this very forum I read that these filters that you rant about being so good rarely if ever filter to less than 25 microns.

3) In this very forum I read that the BEST of the full flow filters only effectively filters down to 10 microns, the Mobil1 etc.

4) In this very forum I read that dust and crap much smaller than 25 microns get in the oil and apparently just never gets filtered out.

5) In this very forum I read that big companies with a lot on the line analyze this stuff and determine that the vast majority of the wear on an engine is caused by particle sizes smaller than 10 microns.

Thus, I see nothing to indicate that without a particle count, without looking at what is actually left behind in the oil, that there is any chance in **** that you can possibly know whether a filter does ANY GOOD AT ALL. If the engine is disentigrating, if huge chunks of crap are floating around, then yea, IF there is not a filter failure THEN your vaunted filter will serve some purpose. Otherwise you might as well leave it off.

I do not do these analysis, I just read them IN HERE. I do not have any ax to grind, I just evaluate what I read IN HERE. I know nothing, I just try and "filter out" the crap from the good info, which believe me is a royal PITA!

Filter Guy, let's be clear. I could give a rat's patuty if any brand of filter has failures or not. What I have read in these very forums tells me that the average filter just isn't worth the $1.00 that it costs. If it rips to shreads, it is only minimally less effective than if it retains it's pristine state out of the box.

From what I am reading IN THIS FORUM, the evidence is indeed clear, but the evidence certainly doesn't point to being able to tell the state of the filter without looking at it. And since you never took an oil analysis without ANY filter you simply have no way to know that you wouldn't see these same numbers with no filter on your car at all. And since you didn't get a particle count, or a solids number, you have no clue what your vaunted filter is leaving in the oil to grind down your engine.

A baseline is an oil analysis with NO filter, then an oil analyis with YOUR Filter, then compared (on the same engine, with the same oil) an oil analysis with other filters. You don't have any of that.

To have you say "the proof is there to be read" is about as silly a statement as I have seen in this forum.

 

[Ugly3]

Filter guy - OTOH..if the pleats had ripped or torn or there be some problem with the element or the by-pass opening up to much..the wear count would go up ( way up), not down.

There would be no change in the wear count. The particle size being reported is too small for any filter to remove. You would get essentially the same UOA report if you had no filter installed. You must do a particle count to see the effectivness of an oil filter.

 

[Filter guy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ugly3:
Filter guy - OTOH..if the pleats had ripped or torn or there be some problem with the element or the by-pass opening up to much..the wear count would go up ( way up), not down.

There would be no change in the wear count. The particle size being reported is too small for any filter to remove. You would get essentially the same UOA report if you had no filter installed. You must do a particle count to see the effectivness of an oil filter.

---

Really?

What size particles do you think the oil filter removes?

What size particles do you think the oil analysis counts?