Subscription based options? I didn't see this coming.

[Pew]

It doesn't seem bad since you can still buy the service outright as long as they don't charge you when you buy the car and not have it.

What does bother me is the direction this is going. More and more will follow suit and eventually I believe it'll just be all subscription-based with no way to straight up buy as we've seen now with ridiculously expensive software licenses *cough* ADOBE *cough*

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Why would I use engineering cycles to enhance an existing car if I get no money for it when I could spend these cycles on a new product I get paid for?

As a manufacturer of hardware products this is an interesting topic - there are definitely ways to do it wrong and paying a sub for heated seats is wrong.

If that's the case then OTA updates should be optional correct? The reality is that they're not because usually there's a safety/warranty/functional issue which is being addressed. I don't mind paying for things like updated maps or software which adds new features. I'm just not going to pay a monthly fee to flip a switch on a physical feature which is already built into the car.

Imagine paying a monthly fee to unlock all 8 gears of your 8-speed automatic?

 

[UncleDave]

If that's the case then OTA updates should be optional correct? The reality is that they're not because usually there's a safety/warranty/functional issue which is being addressed. I don't mind paying for things like updated maps or software which adds new features. I'm just not going to pay a monthly fee to flip a switch on a physical feature which is already built into the car.

Imagine paying a monthly fee to unlock all 8 gears of your 8-speed automatic?

depends on the update.

sounds like you are ok if you are getting new features that arent hardware based.

In the case of the model 3 long range you can pay 2K (used to be) to reduce 0-60 time by about a half a second - in your mind would that be acceptable or is that a rip off because it was already technically there, but needed an unlock?

What if you didnt know the capability was built in and bought the car based on what it offered at point of sale?

 

[Trav]

They can kiss my backside the crooked swines. Whats next rent a recharge cable for your EV for $50 a month. LOL

 

[UncleDave]

It doesn't seem bad since you can still buy the service outright as long as they don't charge you when you buy the car and not have it.

What does bother me is the direction this is going. More and more will follow suit and eventually I believe it'll just be all subscription-based with no way to straight up buy as we've seen now with ridiculously expensive software licenses *cough* ADOBE *cough*

I see this both ways - You cant expect people to keep adding new stuff for free,
as long as I get what I bought with the car I shouldn't have to keep paying for it.

No public company will ever go back to a perpetual license

 

[BISCUT]

Dirty pool BMW. I hope it backfires on them.

 

[fsdork]

depends on the update.

sounds like you are ok if you are getting new features that arent hardware based.

In the case of the model 3 long range you can pay 2K (used to be) to reduce 0-60 time by about a half a second - in your mind would that be acceptable or is that a rip off because it was already technically there, but needed an unlock?

What if you didnt know the capability was built in and bought the car based on what it offered at point of sale?

I think this scenario is more defensible. Rather than the old model of being offered the option of a base 4-cylinder or paying a premium for a V6, there is now a variety of potential in the EV hardware which can be unlocked. It may be that it is more cost-effective for the EV manufacturer to put the same parts in every car in order to streamline production, rather than making a physical differentiation between the big motor/little motor or long range/short range option.

And as you say, if it's $2K for the upgrade at point of sale, why not offer it as a paid OTA upgrade option for those who under-buy and later realize they would gladly pay for the option.

Where I would object is if it becomes a subscription service where it has to be paid for in perpetuity, or if the manufacturer strips the upgrade out when the vehicle is sold to owner #2, 3, and so on.

 

[john_pifer]

“There’s a sucker born every day”

- PT Barnum

 

[JustN89]

Yeah.. I don’t see this working out the way BMW expects. I give it 6 months before there is broad aftermarket support for bypassing the lock and turning on equipment that comes with the car.

The OEM wouldn’t have much recourse, either. At least for now, Magnusson-Moss protects the consumer from a total warranty cancellation. I guess that could always be reworded, but to be honest, most OEM warranties aren’t very long anyways (3/36k is pretty much the standard). I know I wouldn’t mind going without for 3 years, only to turn the feature on for free once my warranty is up. Heck, most people get kinda bored with their cars at 3 years (it’s a big reason why the average trade cycle was 34 months).

 

[jeepman3071]

Not the same.

And OTA updates, wether to correct a problem or to enhance the car, should be free of charge. This would generate customer goodwill and increase brand loyalty.

The scenario you propose will just lead to a decontented powertrain that they'll then give you the privilege of paying to "improve."

I'm sure the OTA updates that remove features the driver stops paying for will be free.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

My favorite is Tesla who charge ~12k for full self drive, or you can pay $200 a month for it instead. If someone does pay the $12k up front, if you trade the car in they disable it for the next owner.

 

[UncleDave]

My favorite is Tesla who charge ~12k for full self drive, or you can pay $200 a month for it instead. If someone does pay the $12k up front, if you trade the car in they disable it for the next owner.

It will be interesting to see if super cruise and blue cruise and other advanced driver aids end up being perpetual and transferable.

As we have seen - any and every accident while using a drivers aid all of the sudden becomes the cars fault.

The manufacturer has no way of confirming a new owner agrees to and understands any limitations, and they themselves become exposed to the additional risk of more drivers than they originally priced their liabilities for.

 

[Marcozi]

$120 laptop from ebay, software and more options can be unlocked than BMW actually offers on the US market.

But, that doesn’t excuse these ghouls at the bean counter.

**** bean counters!

 

[edyvw]

It will be interesting to see if super cruise and blue cruise and other advanced driver aids end up being perpetual and transferable.

As we have seen - any and every accident while using a drivers aid all of the sudden becomes the cars fault.

The manufacturer has no way of confirming a new owner agrees to and understands any limitations, and they themselves become exposed to the additional risk of more drivers than they originally priced their liabilities for.

Nope. It is not car’s fault or drivers. It is NHTSA fault for allowing that system to be available in the first place.
I really don’t care if some ghoul kills himself/herself. But they will, and they do kill other people.

 

[riverblue]

We keep seeing car companies dabbling in this nonsense.

Step back for a moment and see the bigger picture: this is just one of many examples of the automobile industry's drawn-out death rattle. I need not specify what happens next (and by next, I don't mean tomorrow, I mean over the next 5-10 years). The ability of car companies to simultaneously obtain raw materials for production at reasonable cost, address ever-stricter regulatory requirements, maintain product affordability, and make adequate profit to remain going concerns is slowly disappearing into the mist.

 

[Audiman]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Audi’s Function on Demand system. The Etron, GT, current A3 are all using it and it’s down to each countries importer who decides on model specs what is included. Take the Etron, they are all built with matrix headlights but if it wasn’t part of the spec when purchased for your trim level then you can used FoD to activate it. Diffent price points over different time scales are available up to purchase forever. The one saving grace with Audi is if you buy the function and then sell the car it will remain active until it reaches the end of the agreed term. If this was forever then it stays on the car forever.

I cannot see the FoD system being bypassed currently as it is integrated into numerous control units. Even if you switch on privacy mode the car still checks up every 3 months with the main server.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yeah.. I don’t see this working out the way BMW expects. I give it 6 months before there is broad aftermarket support for bypassing the lock and turning on equipment that comes with the car.

The OEM wouldn’t have much recourse, either. At least for now, Magnusson-Moss protects the consumer from a total warranty cancellation. I guess that could always be reworded, but to be honest, most OEM warranties aren’t very long anyways (3/36k is pretty much the standard). I know I wouldn’t mind going without for 3 years, only to turn the feature on for free once my warranty is up. Heck, most people get kinda bored with their cars at 3 years (it’s a big reason why the average trade cycle was 34 months).

Could happen, but this is a tough one becuse you are modifying software that operates the vehicle. In programming we all know the "fix 1 break 5" principle. Manufacturer code mods can cause bugs; imagine what an aftermarket coder might miss.
Throwing a software switch is different than throwing a physical switch. But who knows?

 

[Andrew1972]

They will slightly raise price of vehicle to cover the materials however it likely decreases the complexity matrix in dealing with car options at and before build time.

 

[Skippy722]

BMW is going to be like “that’ll be $5.99 for the Bluetooth connectivity please!”

 

[JustN89]

Could happen, but this is a tough one becuse you are modifying software that operates the vehicle. In programming we all know the "fix 1 break 5" principle. Manufacturer code mods can cause bugs; imagine what an aftermarket coder might miss.
Throwing a software switch is different than throwing a physical switch. But who knows?

Eh. We’ve been disabling auto-stop/start for years with no problems via software. I agree that there’s definitely risk involved, but free heated seats may be worth it!