Storing gasoline indoors?

[SecondMonkey]

I recently rented out a large industrial shop space. I would like to have my own supply of gas there on hand. Is it safe to store gasoline indoors (big shop) in a 55 gallon drum? I was reading the zoning details and it specifically says storing fuel indoors is legal.

If I can, should I use a steel drum or HDPE? And, is there some way I can ground them to prevent static shock?

 

[eljefino]

I don't have all the answers but if you do nothing else vent near the thing!

Around here you see paints and other VOCs stored in a separate outside shed rather consistently... IDK if it's OSHA or EPA making it happen, or perhaps another entity.

Is this the warehouse with the bad electricals? I wouldn't be homebrew grounding anything to anything until that gets figured out!

 

[simple_gifts]

I'd be more concerned about safe transfer. In the Air Force refueling a plane required a minimum of 3 grounds, plane to ground, truck to ground, truck to plane, and this was for fuel that is less volatile than gasoline. A static discharge between the pump you may be inserting and the drum is all you need ....

So, grounding the drum is ONE of the things you need to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYO4jvnJHw&feature=related

 

[StevieC]

We regularly fill up a huge drum at a station and bring it home for all the outdoor yard equipment. Grounding is must and we have a pair of old jumper cables we use for this. One end is clamped on the rim of the Drum and the other is clipped to a thick ground wire connected to the fuse panels neutral line.

 

[FiremarshalRob]

That would make me rather nervous.

 

[StevieC]

We have done it for over 20 years and never a problem... What makes you nervous?

 

[simple_gifts]

When dealing with dispensing and storing large amounts of gasoline, I would avoid anecdotal evidence, you won't hear from people's whose techniques didn't work.

Having dealt will electrically fired munitions for 15 years, grounding of a person is equally important.

 

[Drew2000]

If you had a fire in the shop, you could probably kiss your fire insurance policy goodbye. Indoor drum storage of gasoline probably violates many state and local building codes

I would never store gasoline indoors. Either get a proper double-walled gas dispensing system, or at the very least, get a sturdy outbuilding shed and store your drums as far away as possible from other structures.

http://www.convault.com/index.html

 

[SecondMonkey]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
I'd be more concerned about safe transfer. In the Air Force refueling a plane required a minimum of 3 grounds, plane to ground, truck to ground, truck to plane, and this was for fuel that is less volatile than gasoline. A static discharge between the pump you may be inserting and the drum is all you need ....

Do you ever ground your rubber tired vehicle before filling it with gas? The air force stands to lose BILLIONS of dollars in a fire, I'd lose a couple cordless drills.

Really I see this as no different than driving a truck with two full 20 gallon tanks and parking it inside. In terms of fire, it's exactly the same. Nobody ever grounds their pickup truck before filling...or parking.

Originally Posted By: Drew2000
If you had a fire in the shop, you could probably kiss your fire insurance policy goodbye. Indoor drum storage of gasoline probably violates many state and local building codes

Did you miss the part where I said I know with 100% certainty it is perfectly legal? That includes building code, zoning law, and even my landlord.

And, BTW - I already have SEVEN fire extinguishers mounted on the walls.

 

[Drew2000]

Yes, I did miss the zoning part, but just because it's not expressly forbidden, doesn't mean it's a great idea either.

Difference with vehicles is they have a vapor recovery system to handle the fumes from evaporation. Do as you please, your mind already seems made up.

 

[SecondMonkey]

Originally Posted By: Drew2000
Yes, I did miss the zoning part, but just because it's not expressly forbidden, doesn't mean it's a great idea either.

It's not just "not forbidden", but the zoning specifically addresses storing fuel indoors. I'm in an industrial park.

Originally Posted By: Drew2000
Difference with vehicles is they have a vapor recovery system to handle the fumes from evaporation. Do as you please, your mind already seems made up.

Well, that's why I asked "what's the safest way to do it" in my first post. I'm not asking for anyone's permission, but simply what the safest way to do it is.

 

[tom slick]

remember that you need to vent that amount of fuel, where are those vapors from your makeshift tank going to go?

 

[Eddie]

Why don't you ask the local fire department & the insurance company? All this guessing is not the way to go if you have problems.

 

[SecondMonkey]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
Why don't you ask the local fire department & the insurance company? All this guessing is not the way to go if you have problems.


I HIGHLY doubt either of those places are going to explain how to store gas. It has nothing to do with them, and further more, is none of their business.

I thought I could get some helpful answers about this on a board dedicated to fuel and oil but obviously I was wrong.

Originally Posted By: tom slick
where are those vapors from your makeshift tank going to go?

What is "makeshift" about it? Do you think I'm the only one storing fuel in drums? Why do you think they call them OIL drums? I also know for a fact that basically EVERY high octane race fuel seller sells it by the 55 gallon drum.

Furthermore, if there ever was a fire, it doesn't matter whether you have 5 gallons or 50 - they will both burn way out of your control.(how many of you have a gas can in the garage?)

 

[tom slick]

I'm just trying to help you out, Maybe your plan isn't as simple as filling any 'ol 55 gallon barrel and reaping the benefits of on-site fuel storage.

Is your OIL drum certified for use with fuel? Oil and fuel are not the same. Fuel must be stored in an approved container, even it is 1 gallon. Maybe DOT approval on any drum is all that is needed?

I know the EPA explicitly says not to store fuel indoors because it has to be vented. In fact it is supposed to be 50' away from your structure. When stored in barrels I've only seen it in a hazmat shelter. just because the local speed shop has a barrel of race gas sitting in the shop doesn't make it safe or legal.

some homework for you.
http://www.purdue.edu/dp/envirosoft/fuel/src/fireexp.htm

 

[SecondMonkey]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
Is your OIL drum certified for use with fuel? Oil and fuel are not the same. Fuel must be stored in an approved container, even it is 1 gallon. Maybe DOT approval on any drum is all that is needed?

A drum is a drum, they don't make different ones for oil and gas. The DOT doesn't mean squat to me. They have absolutely no jurisdiction inside my shop. I can store gas in milk jugs if I really want to.

Originally Posted By: tom slick
I know the EPA explicitly says not to store fuel indoors because it has to be vented. In fact it is supposed to be 50' away from your structure.

Directly from the Town's web site:
M-2 LIGHT INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT
151.401 PERMITTED BUILDINGS AND USES.
Quote:
(48) Wholesaling, warehousing and storing of the following, provided that all outdoor storage shall be enclosed within site-obscuring fences or walls:
(a) Automobiles, truck and buses.
(b) Consumer goods.
(c) Contractors equipment.
(d) Building materials, except no on-site wrecking or burning.
(e) Food products.
(f) Liquid fuel.
(g) Household goods.
(h) Ice.
(i) Lumber, except no log storage or ponding.
(j) Other items similar to the preceding items, including non-specific or general wholesaling, warehousing and storage that shall not have any different or more detrimental effect upon the adjoining neighborhood areas or districts than the items specifically listed.

This is not some kind of backyard garage, this is a full on industrial warehouse well within industrial zoning.

PS - My dad delivers HAZMAT chemicals in 55 gallon drums every day. Some of the most horrible chemicals you could imagine. They're all stored in a drum inside a warehouse very similar to mine.

 

[tom slick]

Do whatever you want. Don't ask if you can't handle an answer that may disagree with your opinion. Your actions have no impact on us, we are only trying to help you stay safe and legal. I really don't care if you want to stand in a vat of gas and arc weld, but if you ask about it we'll send some information your way.
You are specifically asking about safety issues in your first post. We have raised other questions in the interest of safety, you take them as attacks and feel the need to argue. All of them are in your best interest, ignore them and make up your own answers if you'd like. Ours are certainly not what you are looking for.

Every drum on your dad's truck is DOT, that's DOT territory. To be stored in any of those warehouses they have to be DOT, even if they are sitting on the ground. Not because the DOT has jurisdiction in the warehouse but the other governing agencies use the DOT spec as a minimum in their own regulations, including the state of Oregon. Some even use the UN identification.

Maybe your dad, or someone at his company can give you the actual regs for storing fuel indoor.
My guess is the bare minimum of grounded and DOT approved container.

 

[SecondMonkey]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
You are specifically asking about safety issues in your first post. We have raised other questions in the interest of safety, you take them as attacks and feel the need to argue.

No, I asked how to safely do it, then a bunch of idiots came along and told me it was unsafe, for reasons they mostly do not have first hand knowledge about. Like I said before I wasn't asking anybody's permission.

There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but all I've gotten is criticism without the constructive part. (like you trying to tell me it's illegal when it's not)


If anybody would like to go back to the FIRST post, READ it CAREFULLY, and then post any ADVICE you might have. If you don't have any advice, just hit your back button.

I do thank StevieC for actually trying to help.

 

[wannafbody]

Well, the minimum for a 5 gallon gas can is a vented safety can with spring loaded lid and fire prevention screen. As for 55 gallon drums your dad should be able to get the info for you. And you better be concerned about your insurance company. If you store a hazardous material in an illegal manner and they inspect you, don't be surprised of they don't require changes or flat out drop you.

 

[Eddie]

So now the people trying to help you are IDIOTs. Have a good life.