STILKO filters, yahoo Festiva group, etc.

[bobstad]

I have a '91 Ford Festiva with 122,000 miles I got as the second owner with 85,000 miles, and for the past 30,000 miles or so I've been using a STILKO toilet paper oil filter.

Recently I joined a yahoo group for Festivas, and as soon as I chanced to mention using this STILKO filter I was chastised by the group owner, and several others, trying to tell me I was ruining my motor, and repeating all of the negative claims I've been seeing since then, looking around on the net just recently.

So, anyone willing to go over there and post some more informed data, would sure be welcomed by me, and it would make me feel less like an idiot.

I got the STILKO about six years ago before I bought the Festiva when all I had for transportation was a ten-speed bicycle. An older man who was selling a pretty rusty '67 Checker Marathon station wagon he'd just put a new engine and transmission in, with the full AMSOIL filtration system on both had this old STILKO he let me have for five dollars that he'd praised.(in high school the father of a friend had a Frantz system that he had great success with, on a '62 Plymouth)

Once I got the Festiva, that has never had anything but Mobile One in it, I contacted Neil R. Wagenaar of Chula Vista, Ca., who sells both STILKOS and Frantz filters and he sold me the necessary adapter to be able to use it on the Festiva. Until encountering this Festiva group on Yahoo, I'd thought I'd done well in using the STILKO, and now after a period of doubt, I'm begining to become more confidant I was right.

One question now, since I've been trying to do some research, is that I wonder if some of the filter mediums that similar filter manufacturers sell for use with their filters they say are better than the plain roll of toilet paper, might also be better with the STILKO.(I've been using Scott single ply because it seemed the densest of all of the brands, and is commonly available in a single roll, etc.)

Anyway, Neil R. Wagenaar has been very conscientous and helpful over the phone, and it really went against my heart to let myself be swayed by arguments against using the STILKO, so I'm glad I found this site and others supportive of the toilet paper filters.

By the way, I change the medium every 5,000 miles, which Neil said would be an okay interval using Mobil One, and he also says he never changes his oil, and hasn't since 1966...I've been thinking of doing the same, but wonder if this is adviseable?

Also my motor seems to run a little rich, and though I easily passed the last smog test I had to go through here in California, there has always been some soot in my tailpipe, which I'd never had in a '66 VW squareback I maintained really well for a dozen years, so I wonder both how to get the Festiva running cleaner if it should be, and what sort of effect its current condition has on the oil, longevity, etc. Local mechanics say Festivas seem to run a little rich, but the people at the yahoo Festiva group say this isn't true, but have not been very forthcoming about what my problems might be, other than to suggest cleaning some of the sensors...I've never been confronted with computers before, and am thinking I might be better off paying someone else to help me, at least until I know more what I'm doing?

Thanks for your help and interest, and anyone willing to set the discussion right at that Festiva Yahoo group is sure my welcome guest to do so...I sure hope there isn't this level of misinformation and prejudice there generally, which doesn't seem to be the case, but they have sure been all set and primed against toilet paper type oil filters, and came on me like vultures on carrion for some reason.(and the opinions expressed there like a conference of rocket scientists seem to actually echo the most hearsay comments elsewhere on the net about the subject...lets get the "straight poop" out, if anyone is willing?)

 

[johnd]

I first ran into someone with a TP oil filter about 1970. When he told me he never changed his oil, I wrote him off as a nut and never gave it a second thought. I ran into this web site and the longer I read, the more it seemed like a good idea. Ever since putting the System One, modified for TP, on my car, I have been doing blotter analysis and watching the solids go down as time goes on. I suspect that you have encountered some individuals like I used to be. I now think bypass filtration is actually a good idea-I don't think that it is the solution to everything-but basically a good idea. I read about 200 old posts in this forum a few months ago and I really learned a lot.

 

[RalphPWood]

I have a Stilco that I have had for 40 years. They clean oil as good as any TP filter. The disadvantage is they are messy to deal with and take too small an element if they are the same as the old ones. I try to keep the old Frantzes and Motor Guards in use but I sort of put the Stilco on the shelf and forgot about it. I thought about selling them but they didn't meet my requirements. My personal favorite is the Motor Guard but when they converted to compressed air filters I had no trouble going back to the Frantz. When I couldn't get Frantzes I went to Gulf Coast filters. I decided it was worth the effort to bring back the Motor Guards as a lube oil filter. I am glad now that I did.
I learned a long time ago that it is a waste of time to try to convince some idiot that TP is a superior filter element. I used to hear some good stories about TP filters. Such as: TP plugging up a catalytic converter; a guy in Calif. that got rich digging TP out of engines, etc. I just get the info out there and some people will think it's a good idea. I don't want a filter on a car if the owner hasn't done his research and decided TP is the way to go.
I just got a call from a guy that bought a 53 Chevy with a Motor Guard M-100 on it. He called the Motor Guard factory and was told to go a NAPA dealer for elements. The compressed air elements are a very good filter but they are for high water content compressed air. They have a plastic core that will melt at high oil temperatures. The old Motor Guards needed a 1 1/2" core. The only TP I know of that has the 1 1/2" core is some of the Scott 1000 sheet in the individual wrapper. Some are 1 5/8". I learned that on this forum from a TP filter user.
There are more TP filter users on this forum than any of the others. This is probably the best place to get information. I'm not bashful

about talking about them. Of course I am biased, I'll admit it.

Ralph

 

[bobstad]

Ralph, you seem to really be in the know...I just got myself banned from the Festiva Yahoo group, by its owner Burgess Howell there, for trying to sustain a discussion about the toilet paper filters...he insists that my STILKO is not a by pass filter, but to me even though they are calling themselves "full flow" in their brochure I have a copy of, they still have a Bypass oil route, a Bypass Regulator Ring Valve and a Bypass Regulator Spring...and I conjectured, possibley not accurately, that they were calling them "full flow" to try to capitalise on their spin-on simplicity and similarity to the standard spin-on full flow filters...in a situation where sales may've needed some sort of stimulation?(they are currently being made in South Africa, and by the way, standard rolls of t. p. fit in mine, though several of the outside layers of the roll have to be taken off to get them to fit) I sure wish I hadn't gotten the guy there Burgess mad at me, because otherwise it seems a pretty useful site and all.(oh well...)

 

[deepsquat]

Yes , you also have to unwind the scott to get it into a Motorguard or a frantz...as for tthe guy banning you for discussing a engine topic..what a d o r k !..as for never changing you oil again...wouldn't do it without an oil analysis..at say 5k and 10 k and 15 k ..so you at least have a trend to see how you car reacts to such long intervals...take the sampe before you change the filter element..

I know that my car can go forever..but i have done maybe 6-10 oil analisis ...my last one was 44,000 miles on the oil ( well at least without cracking the drain plug!)

 

[trynew]

quote:

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I have a Stilco that I have had for 40 years. They clean oil as good as any TP filter. The disadvantage is they are messy to deal with and take too small an element if they are the same as the old ones.

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Even though I have never seen a real Stilko filter, on pictures it looks similar to a Trasko. A Trasko can make a good automatic transmission filter on a remote mount in the cooler line. Even though the filter is small, it is big enough to go a year without changing. Maybe the Stilko could be used for that purpose. They must have a built in bypass like the Trasko. If you are worried about the top (full flow) screen plugging up and blocking the fluid's cooling system, you can remove it.

 

[bobstad]

In all fairness to Burgess Howell, who is the owner of the Yahoo Festiva discussion group who banned me there because I was trying to discuss by-pass and toilet paper filtration...

I think he shoulders nearly all of the burden of providing technical answers himself...he says they have about 1250 subscribers...and his answers seem to be good, if occassionally missing something because it is so simple.

And, I can get really long winded...I'm an amatuer mechanic, but I like reading literature and write alot...for awhile Burgess was being really helpful, simpley urging me to edit myself as much as I could, and I could see how I was taking the longest route everytime to get to my points.

But, he really seemed to be going by hearsay on the tiolet paper filters, and like he then would come back and reverse himself if it seemed he was really blowing lots of hot air.(he can write really authoritatively, so maybe my being banned there was a favor to me...it became too much work to look through all the recent posts to try to refute him...I have an older computer on dail-up, at $4.95 a month)

And, I did contribute one piece there that was pretty cute, about getting water in through the air cleaner that bent a connecting rod...but I did it as a dramatic dialogue since it was involved in a long drive up the coast to visit a sick lady friend 400 miles to the north during a terrible storm. Someone praised the piece as being a nice story, but I don't think Burgess really likes that sort of thing at his site...so maybe he was trying to make things rough there for me until I finally got enough overextended to give him an excuse for dumping me.(and the toilet paper filters were a perfect subject for doing that)

Anyway, I appreciate the dialogue here, and it has gotten me really confident about using the STILKO and a lot more informed than I had been.

I do have to figure out how to get my oil tested to see if I am fine not ever changing it...is that very hard to do, and especially here in a place like Eureka, California?

And, using MOBILE ONE, is my frequency changing the toilet paper rolls every 5,000 miles adequate?(I was told this would be okay by someone who sells the STILKOS, and recommends changing the element every 2-3000 miles with non-synthetic oil...Neil R. Wagenaar)

 

[johnd]

Until this thread I'd never heard of this type oil filter so I googled it to see what they cost. Good grief! You'd have to really want one of those things to pay $600+ for it.

 

[keith]

The Stilko looks very similar to the Trasko, and the text on the web site is very similar too (e.g. "oil refinery under your hood"). There must be some connection between these two designs.

 

[LarryL]

The Stilco costs under a hundred bucks in US currency. You were looking at someone else's currency. Call Niel at (619) 422-7060 (California) and he will be glad to help you out. I've known him since about 1965 and he is a good guy, completely honest, and he has been in the filter business, selling and installing, about 40 years or so.

 

[RalphPWood]

The big relief valve opens when the engine starts and closes when the engine stops. The Stilko is a bypass filter that screws on. I remember the brochure from the 60s. There was a picture of a dragster with a Stilko on it. I was working for Joe Davis of Davis Ingram Racing of San Jose at the time. We had a good laugh. TP filters are useless on a dragster. It looked pretty on there though. 90% of the oil going to the bearings without being filtered is bad news on a dragster. No problem with my Camry.
I put a Frantz on the tow rig which was a Suburban with a 292 6 cylinder engine. Joe ran it 350,000 miles with over 300,000 with no oil drains using Delo 100 20 weight oil. We used the Frantz converter plate that eliminated the full flow filter. When I started selling the Motor Guard he helped me sell a lot of them.
The guys on this forum have helped me a lot more. I sometimes find people that have used TP filters longer then I have but not very often. The last time I sold the Frantz they had just been bought by Diffusion Techologies in Tacoma, Washington and were being trucked up there from Stockton, Calif. Motor Guard started in San Jose, Calif. and ended up in Manteca, Calif. I called Motor Guard about 25 years agp and was told that they no longer marketed oil filters. I decided that was the wrong answer and brought them back on my own.
I'm not too much into doing oil analysis on my rigs. I know how to read a dipstick. For what it costs for oil analysis I can change the filter a few times. On the equipment at work I do the oil analysis thing to impress the boss. The only time the oil needs to be drained is when you have an engine problem that causes a severe fuel or coolant contamination problem. The look and feel of the oil and the smell will tell me that.

Ralph

 

[LarryL]

In fact, buy a MotorGuard from Frank. He supports BITOG, but only because he has an understanding wife. Don't tell anyone, but he even puts TP filters on fork lift engines.

 

[deepsquat]

As for having your oil analized ..we have a site sponse ..Blackstone Labs ...do a search on google or this site ..simple process and only coct about $25.00 also another sponser Butler CAT .is even cheaper

 

[johnd]

quote:

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The Stilco costs under a hundred bucks in US currency. You were looking at someone else's currency. Call Niel at (619) 422-7060 (California) and he will be glad to help you out. I've known him since about 1965 and he is a good guy, completely honest, and he has been in the filter business, selling and installing, about 40 years or so.

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I had to really look to find that the website was Johannesburg South Africa.

 

[RalphPWood]

You have to be careful telling people how far they can go between filter changes using an oil like Mobil 1. What one engine can get away with another one might not. I told the boss that he could probably go 5,000 miles between filter changes since he was using Mobil 1. I didn't like the looks of the oil on the dipstick at about 50,000 miles. I sent a sample to Butler and sure enough it had an oxidation problem. We could have changed the filter every 2,000 miles until we got ahead of the problem but the boss decided to drain the oil. It was a 95 GMC pickup with a 350 engine. It had a sorry cooling system plus it gets very hot here in the Dallas area. Another customer, same engine, in the Dallas area has no oxidation problems using Quaker State 30 conventional. Does that mean the Quaker State is a betteer oil? No it means the guy using the Quakere State has a factory trailer towing package with a large oil cooler.
I was changing the TP and adding a quart of Mobil 1 once a year or about 12,000 on my Subaru. That was pushing it a little too far. I think the Subaru could have handled a filter change and a quart of Mobil 1 about every 6,000 miles or every 6 months and stayed ahead of the oxidation. I had to drain the oil 4 times in 240,000 miles because of not changing the filter often enough.
It was simpler back in the 60s when I didn't know enough to be dangerous. I used a good oil such as Shell Rotella or Delo 100 and changed the filter every 2,000 miles whether it needed it or not. I used straight grade oil because the multi grades couldn't handle extended drains in those days. There are all kinds of opinions on the subject but all it amounts to is never allowing the oil to get dirty and adding enough new oil. If you need a motor oil or ATF cooler install one. Excess heat is as bad as not keeping the fluids clean. Many times it is cheaper to install a cooler than installing a seal damaged by the heat.
If you have one of the submicronic bypass filters which usually means it is a TP filter and the oil feels thicker and doesn't look like new you probably need to change the filter more often or install a cooler. Northerners might not have oxidation problems but might have sludge problems. You have to use common sense.
Frank doesn't know anything Ralph is the smart one.

Ralph

 

[bfhowell]

Hi, folks. I have to thank Bob (the original poster) for pointing me to this thread via private e-mail. Otherwise, I would have missed seeing myself called an idiot and a dork, and being described as blowing lots of hot air. If you good people don't mind, I would like to clear up just a few points with respect to some of the comments Bob has made here.

First, my objections to the Stilko were/are based on my 30 years' experience maintaining and repairing my own cars, my professional experience and formal education in physics and physical sciences, and, of course, Stilko's own product literature. Nothing in this thread, my education, or my experience has refuted anything I have ever said or posted about how bypass and full-flow oil filtration works, and what should be the advantages and disadvantages of each type when utilizing toilet paper for a filter medium.

Second, I have said in public posts that bypass filters, including those using toilet paper media, can be a very good way to clean an engine's oil supply. I'm not convinced that going virtually forever without changing oil is a good idea, but I gladly concede that a good bypass filtration system can significantly extend the service life of your oil.

Finally, Bob is not now banned and never was banned from the Festiva mailing list. His posts are moderated by me and the other list owner, but he is free to post at will. He is currently considered a member in good standing and is listed as such in our membership database.

BTW, Bob's posts are moderated not because he posted about TP filters, but because he repeatedly posted long-winded, incoherent, and frequently off-topic posts, often referring to smoking marijuana, and once describing a dream in which he copulated with a menstruating woman. Posts such as these are plainly contrary to the rules of our group and any member who had submitted them would be subject to the same restriction.

The message archives and membership records of our Festiva group are available to the public if anyone is interested. We're at yahoogroups dot com. The group is called 'festiva'. Feel free to e-mail me at bfhowell at knology dot net and I'll reply with URLs to the pertinent threads.

Sorry for airing the laundry.

Regards,

Burgess Howell
Owner/moderator
Festiva Mailing List

 

[chenobylite]

Looks like Trasco alright. I see there's a Stilko on Ebay as I write this. Not cheap either:

http://tinyurl.com/96cmx

One photo shows the patent number. Interesting to go to the US Patent Office website and look through the records and drawings on this gadget.

So these things are still being sold in the US for less than $100 even thought the firm is now in South Africa? Lol, I wonder if those bidders know that.

Btw, Trasko claims regular TP can't be used in their rig. How true is that?

 

[LarryL]

Someone on this site did the conversion and I guess it worked.

As far as Stilko is concerned, Neil R. Wagenaar has a limited back stock from the original manufacturer he has been selling, along with a good stock of parts...He's at 176 Cypress St., Chula Vista, Ca. 91910, telephone [619] 422-7060). This information from bobstad.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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.but I did it as a dramatic dialogue since it was involved in a long drive up the coast to visit a sick lady friend 400 miles to the north during a terrible storm.

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Yeah ..yeah I know up hill ..both ways!!


You can never just say "Oh, btw, while you were gone the cat died"

 

[chenobylite]

Oddly, with all the talk about how well TP works, there is a guy on ebay who converts Stilkos to normal filters:

http://tinyurl.com/bmc5v

Why not just use a regular spin-on and be done with it?