Start/Stop Engine Wear
- Thread starter Trav
- Start date
- Status
I'll probably get flamed but here goes. Interesting, but not surprising, more wear, but they want us to believe otherwise. I'd turn it off, every time I get into the car, or find some kind of flash, or plug in device that shuts it off all the time. Then the start stop system will benefit me by having some if not all of these features: A better battery, stronger alternator, stronger starter, upgrade bearings, maybe a few other tweaks, possibly better oil, etc. Then it becomes a win win 'for me'.
The EPA and CAFE are really pushing the automakers and oil companies harder and harder. Oh and lets not forget it adds to the cost of the vehicle. I'm glad for now I don't have it, and hope if/when I do it can still be turned off. Flame suit on.
The EPA and CAFE are really pushing the automakers and oil companies harder and harder. Oh and lets not forget it adds to the cost of the vehicle. I'm glad for now I don't have it, and hope if/when I do it can still be turned off. Flame suit on.
Interesting.
But completely data-free. That seems to be almost a rule for commercial organisations, but it tends to make the pitch a bit thin.
If vehicle makers all go stop-start you'd think they might spend a few cents installing pre-lube systems which would make the alleged problem go away, but I would'nt bet on it, and Mahle are apparently betting that they won't, so they've out-cyniced me.
But completely data-free. That seems to be almost a rule for commercial organisations, but it tends to make the pitch a bit thin.
If vehicle makers all go stop-start you'd think they might spend a few cents installing pre-lube systems which would make the alleged problem go away, but I would'nt bet on it, and Mahle are apparently betting that they won't, so they've out-cyniced me.
Interesting, I live in rust area so this stuff does not matter on my vehicles.
The question i have is, when wear starts to occur, will the polymer wear at the same rate that standard bearing material wears?
I.E. will main and rod bearing clearances open up faster?
Is this a fix to a problem that does not exist? I mean with modern oils and proper maintenance, will you see much bearing wear even in a stop start engine?
I.E. will main and rod bearing clearances open up faster?
Is this a fix to a problem that does not exist? I mean with modern oils and proper maintenance, will you see much bearing wear even in a stop start engine?
Last edited:
My Malibu has start/stop. Ive got 26k on her now with no problems so far. No oil consumption, im going to do an UAO on this oil change to see if i see anything.
My Cherokee has it, turn it off every time I get in it. Not changing that habit!
I'm willing to give up the one tenth of a mile per gallon and not have the start/stop function.
If this kind of stuff continues they'll probably turn the engine off every time you let of the gas and coast.
What would be next. Hook up the engine electronics to a GPS system that won't let you drive over the posted speed limit.
I can't wait to see what they come up with, next.
If this kind of stuff continues they'll probably turn the engine off every time you let of the gas and coast.
What would be next. Hook up the engine electronics to a GPS system that won't let you drive over the posted speed limit.
I can't wait to see what they come up with, next.
Can you disable the start/stop feature on these vehicles
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
... I'd turn it off, every time I get into the car, or find some kind of flash, or plug in device that shuts it off all the time. Then the start stop system will benefit me by having some if not all of these features: A better battery, stronger alternator, stronger starter, upgrade bearings, maybe a few other tweaks, possibly better oil, etc. Then it becomes a win win 'for me'.
That's the way I look at this as well. If I get a vehicle with start/stop I will ensure I can permanently disable this feature and enjoy the stronger components you mentioned.
... I'd turn it off, every time I get into the car, or find some kind of flash, or plug in device that shuts it off all the time. Then the start stop system will benefit me by having some if not all of these features: A better battery, stronger alternator, stronger starter, upgrade bearings, maybe a few other tweaks, possibly better oil, etc. Then it becomes a win win 'for me'.
That's the way I look at this as well. If I get a vehicle with start/stop I will ensure I can permanently disable this feature and enjoy the stronger components you mentioned.
Originally Posted By: Ram01
Can you disable the start/stop feature on these vehicles
Some yes, some no. My Cherokee I can turn it off, but it has to be each time I drive it.
Hopefully someone can hack it and permanently disable it.
Can you disable the start/stop feature on these vehicles
Some yes, some no. My Cherokee I can turn it off, but it has to be each time I drive it.
Hopefully someone can hack it and permanently disable it.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
... I'd turn it off, every time I get into the car, or find some kind of flash, or plug in device that shuts it off all the time. Then the start stop system will benefit me by having some if not all of these features: A better battery, stronger alternator, stronger starter, upgrade bearings, maybe a few other tweaks, possibly better oil, etc. Then it becomes a win win 'for me'.
That's the way I look at this as well. If I get a vehicle with start/stop I will ensure I can permanently disable this feature and enjoy the stronger components you mentioned.
Win win for me.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
... I'd turn it off, every time I get into the car, or find some kind of flash, or plug in device that shuts it off all the time. Then the start stop system will benefit me by having some if not all of these features: A better battery, stronger alternator, stronger starter, upgrade bearings, maybe a few other tweaks, possibly better oil, etc. Then it becomes a win win 'for me'.
That's the way I look at this as well. If I get a vehicle with start/stop I will ensure I can permanently disable this feature and enjoy the stronger components you mentioned.
So where does this article stand with all the experts who say you don't need to fill a new oil filter because there is enough residual oil to protect the engine until pressure builds?
Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
Originally Posted By: Ram01
Can you disable the start/stop feature on these vehicles
Some yes, some no. My Cherokee I can turn it off, but it has to be each time I drive it.
Hopefully someone can hack it and permanently disable it.
People complain about it on Mercedes too and it's the same thing, you have to disable it every time you start the car, can't have it off permanently. One side effect of this is that they use another auxiliary battery for the start/stop feature and when that battery fails, that feature stops working. Those batteries don't seem to be last too long as that feature hasn't been out that long. Although they've found ways to hack various things through Star diagnostic, I don't think anyone found a way to disable it yet.
Originally Posted By: Ram01
Can you disable the start/stop feature on these vehicles
Some yes, some no. My Cherokee I can turn it off, but it has to be each time I drive it.
Hopefully someone can hack it and permanently disable it.
People complain about it on Mercedes too and it's the same thing, you have to disable it every time you start the car, can't have it off permanently. One side effect of this is that they use another auxiliary battery for the start/stop feature and when that battery fails, that feature stops working. Those batteries don't seem to be last too long as that feature hasn't been out that long. Although they've found ways to hack various things through Star diagnostic, I don't think anyone found a way to disable it yet.
IF it's a simple switch you can rewire it so the default is "off" and the option is "on".* If it's not, which is likely in my opinion, then it would be a logic toggle in the Engine Management Computer.
In that case, you could conceivably install something a bit more complex that would do the same thing. I'm thinking along the lines of a pulse sent to the ECM that does whatever that switch does, set up with a 555 timer (a very common, inexpensive chip) that would send the disabling pulse after some set time period (seconds) after start-up. Should be simple enough for anyone with DIY electronics experience.
* I rewired my RAM's Overdrive Defeat switch to start up in default Overdrive OFF, rather than the OEM Overdrive ON. A little solder and you're done. In-city fuel consumption is better with it off, plus if others drive the vehicle, you want it off for towing/heavy loads in highway use. Since OFF is the setting that "does no harm" it's a better option than telling people and expecting them to remember to turn it off when loaded.
In that case, you could conceivably install something a bit more complex that would do the same thing. I'm thinking along the lines of a pulse sent to the ECM that does whatever that switch does, set up with a 555 timer (a very common, inexpensive chip) that would send the disabling pulse after some set time period (seconds) after start-up. Should be simple enough for anyone with DIY electronics experience.
* I rewired my RAM's Overdrive Defeat switch to start up in default Overdrive OFF, rather than the OEM Overdrive ON. A little solder and you're done. In-city fuel consumption is better with it off, plus if others drive the vehicle, you want it off for towing/heavy loads in highway use. Since OFF is the setting that "does no harm" it's a better option than telling people and expecting them to remember to turn it off when loaded.
Good article. The extra wear is obvious as thermal cycles are not good for mechanical or electrical components. In addition to bearings, there's also the various rubbers, gaskets, plastics, and elastomers that get stressed over time. What about circuit boards and fasteners? Even epoxy encased automotive electronics have solder joints which weaken with thermal cycling.
Start stop technology is basically something that marketing says is required, so engineers have to design it. I've seen 300,000 on/off cycles typically as the spec that they design around. So engineers design around this and use this as a spec for sub vendors to meet in their components. This is an acceptable number if you are considering the warranty period of a vehicle (e.g. first 5-10 years of ownership), but what happens after 10+ years? My opinion is that you'll start to see failures, some of which may be very subtle due to the extra thermal stresses.
But manufacturers will have brushed off any responsibility as it's past the warranty period by then and no one trends individual failures of sub components in that level of detail.
Start stop technology is basically something that marketing says is required, so engineers have to design it. I've seen 300,000 on/off cycles typically as the spec that they design around. So engineers design around this and use this as a spec for sub vendors to meet in their components. This is an acceptable number if you are considering the warranty period of a vehicle (e.g. first 5-10 years of ownership), but what happens after 10+ years? My opinion is that you'll start to see failures, some of which may be very subtle due to the extra thermal stresses.
But manufacturers will have brushed off any responsibility as it's past the warranty period by then and no one trends individual failures of sub components in that level of detail.
One thing that I've read will disable it in my Cherokee is if something is connected to the trailer wiring. I don't have the tow package but I'd be willing to add the wiring and hook up lights to it and tuck it underneath something, granted that it doesn't also enable like a tow mode or something.
Originally Posted By: funflyer
So where does this article stand with all the experts who say you don't need to fill a new oil filter because there is enough residual oil to protect the engine until pressure builds?
Show me how you fill an oil filter that's mounted base down?
So where does this article stand with all the experts who say you don't need to fill a new oil filter because there is enough residual oil to protect the engine until pressure builds?
Show me how you fill an oil filter that's mounted base down?
THis thing is probably now most hated feature on cars. Trust me, there are people writing softwares as we speak to defeat it.
Nt sure what is going on with BMW's, but all cars I had as leaners, once you turn off SS system, it is permanently disabled.
Nt sure what is going on with BMW's, but all cars I had as leaners, once you turn off SS system, it is permanently disabled.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: funflyer
So where does this article stand with all the experts who say you don't need to fill a new oil filter because there is enough residual oil to protect the engine until pressure builds?
Show me how you fill an oil filter that's mounted base down?
Obviously you can't, but your question still doesn't address the "experts" saying you don't need to prefill.
Originally Posted By: funflyer
So where does this article stand with all the experts who say you don't need to fill a new oil filter because there is enough residual oil to protect the engine until pressure builds?
Show me how you fill an oil filter that's mounted base down?
Obviously you can't, but your question still doesn't address the "experts" saying you don't need to prefill.
- Status
