ST 5w-30; 10k miles; Nissan VG30E 240k miles

[dnewton3]

Ran another 10k miles on dino ST in my wife's 1995 Villager.

Fe is up a bit, but it's actually only "average" now, as seen in the macro data for 10k miles. In the past, it was below average, but now on par with others. No worries for me; I'll continue to monitor it. Averaging 1.9ppm of Fe per 1k miles is very acceptable overall. While it has been "better", I see no issue here whatsoever. Things occasionally spike due to small nuances we cannot see. This spike was only to a "normal" level. This was all 100% soccer-mom runs about driving about town. The last UOA with 10k miles had the last 4k of a long highway trip. As this is 100% total mom-carting-kids around, that might account for the more "normal" Fe.

All other wear metals are fine, indicating nothing terrible is happening. In fact, they are really low, even for the doubled average exposure.

Not sure about the silicone. Air filter has not been changed; perhaps I got a bit of dirt in the sample upon taking it? If it's dirt, this could also be what's effecting the Fe. Oddly, it's not affecting anything else, though.

Oil filter is a MC FL400, which is not the correct one for this engine. The FL400 has a bypass valve in the filter, but the engine also has a bypass valve in the motor. The "correct" filters for this engine do not have bypass features in the filter, and they rely on the bypass in the engine to relieve when appropriate. But, having two bypass valves probably isn't hurting anything. It was a mistake on my part; I grabbed the wrong filter upon installation. Once I realized what I had done, I thought about changing it, but then thought the experiment might be fun to go off the reservation. At the next OCI/FCI, I'll use the correct one and see if that has any effect.

As typical, TAN crossed over TBN, but nothing bad happened.

Oil was not changed; only sampled. Running this load out to 15k miles to see just how things progress. I know some of you see this as pure heresy; I suggest you just avert your eyes from the horror if this makes you sleepless at night ...

Html:


UOA sample # 3 2 1

Brand Wm/ST Wm/ST QS?

type dino dino syn

grade 5w30 5w30 5w30

filter MC Puro clsc Wix

Oil miles 10k 10k 5k

Veh miles 240k 230k 160k

make up oil 1.5 1.0 .5





Blackstone Data Blackstone Data

w/ macro analysis w/ macro analysis

10k 10k 5k 5k

My Univ std My Univ std

Sample Avg dev Sample Avg dev

Al 3 2 7 2 3 4 2

Cr 1 0 2 2 0 1 1

Fe 19 7 18 8 8 10 5

Cu 4 3 7 4 2 4 3

Pb 3 2 10 8 0 5 5

Tn 0 0 2 2 0 1 1

Moly 35 40 55 61

Ni 0 0 0 0

Mang 0 0 0 1

Silver 0 0 0 0

Ti 3 3 0 0

Potas 3 0 2 1

Boron 4 3 21 39

Si 20 9 6 12

Sodium 38 39 2 31

Calcium 2365 2253 2760 2073

Magn 14 13 15 205

Phos 671 683 694 735

Zinc 805 937 809 876

Barium 0 0 0 0





oil properties

Sus V @ 210 58.0 57.8 57.6 54-63

cSt V @ 100 C 9.65 9.58 9.54 8.5 - 11.3

FP 405 395 360 > 365

Fuel .5 tr tr
Insol .4 .4 .3 < .6

TBN 1.3 1.9 n/a > 1.0

TAN 3.6 3.6 n/a

 

[HTSS_TR]

Many BITOG'ers do less than 10k OCI with synthetic. This UOA and another one from another member(xxx_FX4) clearly shows that conventional oil of late can be in service for 8-10k miles(or a little longer) for the right driving conditions.

 

[Azeem]

Impressive !!!

I would not have the courage to go 15 k on dino, I admit.Heck I thought I was on the edge when I ran Valvoline NG 8000 miles .

Thank you.

 

[KCJeep]

I appreciate your contributions here but I don't agree with your approach. It would be good to see one of your engines opened up after 75-100k of this, maybe then I'd be a believer but until then I'm not convinced.

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I appreciate your contributions here but I don't agree with your approach. It would be good to see one of your engines opened up after 75-100k of this, maybe then I'd be a believer but until then I'm not convinced.


x2 I'd have to see what the insides of the motor looked like,bearings etc etc.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I appreciate your contributions here but I don't agree with your approach. It would be good to see one of your engines opened up after 75-100k of this, maybe then I'd be a believer but until then I'm not convinced.


Count me in as unimpressed as well.I'd have to see what the insides of the motor looked like,bearings etc etc.


I'm thinking we'd find a dirty engine, but until then the jury is out.

Dnewton have you ever had the top off one of your engines after this kind of oil use? If so what did you find? Can you see anything through the fill hole? Very curious....

 

[FZ1]

I prefer the looks of the 5k uoa on that one.

 

[DemoFly]

Is that residual Moly? Is this WPP or XOM?

 

[AlienBug]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
I prefer the looks of the 5k uoa on that one.


I don't think there is one. If I read it right there are two 10k samples, broken down by 10k and 5k averages.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I appreciate your contributions here but I don't agree with your approach. It would be good to see one of your engines opened up after 75-100k of this, maybe then I'd be a believer but until then I'm not convinced.


Count me in as unimpressed as well.I'd have to see what the insides of the motor looked like,bearings etc etc.


I'm thinking we'd find a dirty engine, but until then the jury is out.

Dnewton have you ever had the top off one of your engines after this kind of oil use? If so what did you find? Can you see anything through the fill hole? Very curious....


I agree. If I remember correctly, someone previously posted a "good" UOA from a totally blown engine.

 

[dnewton3]

I can easily remove the front valve cover for visual clues to any formation of sludge, etc. After two successive 10k mile runs, no changes to speak of. I can take pictures now, but I don't have any pictures to show what existed 100k miles ago for comparison.

I also check compression; easy to do as well.

I have actually had the top end off about 100k miles ago when my wife overheated it (continued to drive after the water pump went out and burnt a head gasket so I had to remove them and replace). There seems to be no change on the top end even after two 10k mile runs.

I realize this isn't for everyone; it's pushing the accepted envelope. But Ford proved it can be done safely; validated in SAE article. My UOAs are proof it can be done. And a few other brave souls are also getting there as well.

 

[dustyroads]

That's great learning material! I would say the increased iron is from doing more ordinary driving. The previous 10k oci had 4,000 miles of steady state highway driving included which would keep wear metals lower.

I don't see anything wrong yet. there's nothing to indicate bearing or sludge issues. I'm still learning and reports like this are helpful.

Strictly curiosity: was makeup oil added in dribs and drabs? Or added in like half quart or larger amounts?

 

[KCJeep]

Thanks for the response. I thought you'd been doing these kinds of runs longer than that. I doubt we'd see much of anything at only 20k sludge or build up wise but who knows there might be some initial signs (or lack of it).

 

[Garak]

Very nice! Nothing to complain about whatsoever. The iron is so inconsequential that it's beneath notice.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Many BITOG'ers do less than 10k OCI with synthetic. This UOA and another one from another member(xxx_FX4) clearly shows that conventional oil of late can be in service for 8-10k miles(or a little longer) for the right driving conditions.


As stated this run would be what we call severe service. Short soccer mom city driving.
So the "right" conditions is better stated as most any driving condition.

Dnewton. I admire you for putting your money where your mouth is.
As far as dirty or sludge wouldn't that require tbn depletion in order to start forming?
Anyways keep on keepin on

 

[dnewton3]

I checked my maintenance manual records; I now realize that I did indeed change the air filter at the last OCI (230k miles), so it's possible that I induced an air leak that might explain the uptick in Si in this UOA. So I went out late last night and took the intake tract apart to double check stuff; found nothing particular out of the ordinary. But who knows?

Another possibility is that I may have got some dirt in when I pulled the front valve cover. To remove it, I must pull the distributor, and then the valve cover. It's possible I got some dirt in inadvertently when doing the visual under-cover checks. Kind of a double edged sword; there is risk of getting dirt in when trying to check for sludge ... In some manner, it might be just safer to not pull the valve cover?

The top-off oil additions are typically done about 1/2 quart at a time; I just run it from the top of the range to the bottom of the range and only then add oil.


Regardless, I'm really impressed with the capability of today's dino lubes; they are WAY more capable that most folks think.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3

Regardless, I'm really impressed with the capability of today's dino lubes; they are WAY more capable that most folks think.


On this I wholeheartedly agree with you!

 

[salv]

This is ExxonMobil Supertech, same as Mobil Special, a step down from Mobil Super. Basically what we are seeing is evidence of the durability of ExxonMobil conventional oils, even at the entry level.
This oil also starts with a cSt @ 100 of 10.1, so it isn't shearing very much.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: salv
This is ExxonMobil Supertech, same as Mobil Special, a step down from Mobil Super. Basically what we are seeing is evidence of the durability of ExxonMobil conventional oils, even at the entry level.
This oil also starts with a cSt @ 100 of 10.1, so it isn't shearing very much.


How do you know it was the mobil version and not WPP, especially given Dave's location. Did I miss where Dave said which version it was?

Dave, was this the WPP or mobil version?

 

[dnewton3]

I'm not sure which it is to be honest; the containers are gone long ago. I can check what's on the shelf at the store now, but that may not indicate what I used at the time; it's been a while since I bought that load of oil.

This current load (tested at 10k and running to 15k) will be my last load of ST. I'm impressed with it; there is plenty of proof that it's fully capable.

My next load will be an API certified lube of little note, but I'm going to keep it secret until the UOAs are run.