Spark plugs replaced - pictures

Ndx

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Hey Guys, I just replaced spark plugs on Panamera. 62K Km on spark plugs Not sure what to think ... i know that second spark plug from the right looks like it has a lot more deposit/crust ? I would appreciate your expertise, below links to higher quality pictures Link 1 - http://i.imgur.com/RnzIavJ.jpg Link 2 - http://i.imgur.com/CioPS7l.jpg
 
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Ndx

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Not sure, OEM replacement was exact the same. This is OEM plug for most P cars that are not turbo as far as I know ...
 
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I'm not a great plug reader but nothing stands out as "BAD" do you use fuel additives? That could explain some of the crusties.
 

Ndx

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Originally Posted By: Rand
I'm not a great plug reader but nothing stands out as "BAD" do you use fuel additives? That could explain some of the crusties.
Thank you for responding... I don't really use much... I think that I had one bottle of Redline SI1, and Fp+ Just weird that it's one plug that crusty. Ps, I love the subarus with boxser engine so smooth.
 
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It is impossible to "read" spark plugs that have been run at various road speeds and idled for many miles (Km), a task impossible even for the experts..that being said your plugs look pretty normal..some slight differences would be expected..the key word being "slight". No significant differences I can see other than your crusty plug is very clean at the upper part of the spark plug threads compared to the others..maybe the spark plug was over torqued when installed? That might explain that plug running slightly cooler than the others and the crusty. Be sure and use a torque wrench when installing if you can. I am not a big fan of Bosch spark plugs anymore as the quality and heat range consistency between the same spec/numeral Bosch spark plugs is poor IMHO ..I like NGK and use them in my 911, VW(s) and Audi(s). Nickle spark plugs are fine in your application.
 
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Ndx

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No oil addatives, and yes it does use a little. Way less what acceptable by manual.
 
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These plugs have 40.000 miles on them and look just fine to me. I'd bet you felt little, if any, improvement with your new plugs. Kira-Certified Non-Expert.
 
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Originally Posted By: Ndx
No oil addatives, and yes it does use a little. Way less what acceptable by manual.
The plugs look totally normal to me, the one with a little bit more deposits is possibly from oil. That cylinder might be using a very slight amount more than the others which is normal. We are talking about drops more over thousands of miles here not pumping oil. As it is mostly on one cylinder it eliminates fuel additives. It could be that plug had a slightly higher misfire count, not enough to feel or trip a CEL but it can happen as the plugs age. I wouldn't go looking for problems, i don't believe there is one from the look of these plugs. This is nothing more than exploring the reasons for this plug having slight deposits. If the engine came with Bosch plugs use them, Porsche knew what they were doing when they spec'd the plugs, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using them. 2cents
 

Ndx

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Amazing, thank you. New plugs went in from Porsche My only concern is that Indy didn't use torque wrench I'm debating if I should unscrew them and retorque with torque wrench. But do I torque them with new plug spec or do I torque with used spec lol
 
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I wouldn't bother. There is the unknown of if he lubed the threads, if he did the torque spec would need to be reduced by up to 30% depending on what was used. These plugs have a lot of threads and are not really easy to damage, they use a crush washer so i if the mechanic has any experience at all he tightened them enough to crush the washer and thats enough. With this type of plug the use of a torque wrench is a fairly inaccurate exercise, there is a lot of latitude because of the crush washer. The published torque spec is "safe". They couldn't very well say just tighten it till it feels..., that would be way too subjective. Edit: If you feel the need and do it use the used spec.
 
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Ndx

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I will not bother then ... I trust your expertise. Thank you again And no lube was used, as he said that they will be replaced at 100k again so it's only 40k on them Thx guys you are the best
 
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Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I didn't think Porsche would use copper plugs on a Panamera!
These are standard plugs. I still don't know why so many people call standard plugs "copper". Nearly all plugs have copper cores these days, but the electrode material isn't copper. There isn't necessarily better performance from platinum plugs. The main advantage of platinum is self-cleaning and resistance to erosion. If changed at regular intervals, standard plugs are capable of better performance. Also - Porsche would probably go with Bosch, even though Bosch platinum plugs have that horrible thin-wire center platinum electrode. A lot of manufacturers go with traditional suppliers even though they don't make the best parts. Just look at Swiss watch companies going with Renata batteries (which are infamous for leaking).
 
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Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I didn't think Porsche would use copper plugs on a Panamera!
These are standard plugs. I still don't know why so many people call standard plugs "copper". Nearly all plugs have copper cores these days, but the electrode material isn't copper. There isn't necessarily better performance from platinum plugs. Also - they're probably go with Bosch, even though Bosch platinum plugs have that horrible thin-wire center platinum electrode.
Nickel alloy tip plugs, good for 40k km. I actually prefer them to a long life iridium/platinum type ,of course where they are possible to use.
 
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Originally Posted By: chrisri
Nickel alloy tip plugs, good for 40k km. I actually prefer them to a long life iridium/platinum type ,of course where they are possible to use.
In the US, long-life plugs are often specified to be able to advertise a "100,000 mile tuneup" interval. Certain it can be advantageous in boxer engines. Back when I had my 1995 Integra GS-R, I heard that they used double platinums because they could actually survive the heat with the specified 1.3 mm gap. The Integra base engine specified a 1.1 mm gap and standard NGK or Denso plugs. My wife's car had double platinums installed at factory, and I'm guessing it was for the ability to advertise longer maintenance intervals. In both my Integra and my wife's Civic, the plugs are extremely easy to access.
 
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Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I didn't think Porsche would use copper plugs on a Panamera!
These are standard plugs. I still don't know why so many people call standard plugs "copper". Nearly all plugs have copper cores these days, but the electrode material isn't copper. -snip- A lot of manufacturers go with traditional suppliers even though they don't make the best parts. Just look at Swiss watch companies going with Renata batteries (which are infamous for leaking).
You knew what I meant. And copper is the more google/search-friendly term. I try to help people out by making posts that are easy to find in a search. Bosch works fine in European cars, just not Japanese cars. Supposedly they come with higher resistance for more powerful ignitions like ze germans have. NGK is a "traditional" supplier, but their quality is very good if they're not the #1. Part of it also has to do with price; larger companies can give the automakers better prices. Many Volvos from the Ford era came with Champion from the factory. What do you want them to use, E3 and Pulstar? They're the only nontraditional spark plug suppliers I can think of tongue2
 
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Originally Posted By: tommygunn
You knew what I meant. And copper is the more google/search-friendly term. I try to help people out by making posts that are easy to find in a search.
I'm just saying stop using terms that we know are inaccurate. Regular participants on BITOG are supposed to be more knowledgeable about the technology than most people. And Bosch platinums are known for having issues. One shop I used to use said they used standard Bosch plugs for years and when the platinums came out they used those. At least they did until they started coming back with misfires and with the thin platinum wires almost obliterated. Then they switched to ND and got considerably better results. It sounds to me like Porsche wanted to stick with Bosch for business reasons, but understood that Bosch platinums are junk. They actually use less platinum than NGK or Denso, and they bury it flush into the insulator. I understand the rationale that the platinum is supposed to be extremely heat resistant, but the experiences of people actually using them is that they often get vaporized over time. There's another thread where someone with a Subaru shows the factory NGK platinum (single strangely enough) where the platinum electrode has rounded off just a bit. I suspect that Porsche decided that they didn't want to deal with warranty issues if they went with Bosch platinums.
 
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Originally Posted By: y_p_w
In the US, long-life plugs are often specified to be able to advertise a "100,000 mile tuneup" interval...
And in other markets, too. My Gen-IV 5.3L GM has iridium plugs, but imagine the surprise when unscrewing OE Japanese NGK iridiums from our M-B AMG hot rod!
 
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Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I didn't think Porsche would use copper plugs on a Panamera!
These are standard plugs. I still don't know why so many people call standard plugs "copper". Nearly all plugs have copper cores these days, but the electrode material isn't copper. There isn't necessarily better performance from platinum plugs. The main advantage of platinum is self-cleaning and resistance to erosion. If changed at regular intervals, standard plugs are capable of better performance. Also - Porsche would probably go with Bosch, even though Bosch platinum plugs have that horrible thin-wire center platinum electrode. A lot of manufacturers go with traditional suppliers even though they don't make the best parts. Just look at Swiss watch companies going with Renata batteries (which are infamous for leaking).
These are not standard plugs these are also a precious "metal" (actually a rare-earth element) plug. All precious metal plugs are not fine wire. They use a Yttrium-Nickel alloy throughout the plugs construction with a copper in the mix for the core. These are an OE specific product made to match the OE ignition system. It is irrelevant if it is better or worst than NGL Iridum or double platinums, etc, these are the actual plugs specified. Bosch themselves offer no alternative from their commercial OTC lines, so no way in hades would i risk putting something other than these in the car. That is not to say something else cant or wont work but i sure wouldn't want to own the responsibility on a car like this. IMHO truth be told i don't think anyone here would either. Specifications Center Electrode Core Material: Nickel-Yttrium and Copper Center Electrode Tip Material: Nickel-Yttrium Ground Electrode Tip Material: Nickel-Yttrium Hex Size: 16.0 mm Resistor: Yes Thread Size (Reach): 26.5 mm Seat Style: Flat
 
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