Spark Plugs after 30K on 2stroke 300:1

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TCW3 will not harm the catalyst. It doesn't have high levels of phosphorous. The naysayers need to think a little before going postal on the OP...I know that it's sometimes hard to do when you look at a topic like this. Your car can burn a full quart of SM rated dino oil with 800ppm of the nasty stuff in 2000 miles and the cat is designed for that type of contamination load to still last >85,000 miles.

The 600:1 2 stroke ratio definitely helps keep fuel pumps alive, and with the in the tank designs containing non-serviceable sub assemblies (even the fuel fiters are in the tanks on some models- a crazy concept) this is an absolute blessing! MMO probably does the same type of thing, but it costs more hence why guys are burning the 2 stroke to deal with the evil corn juice!
 
Originally Posted By: gomes512
chevrofreak, yeah that plug looks strange to me. I'll keep an eye on that cylinder and see if it happens again. Do you think it could possibly be an injector issue? I'm not to familiar with reading plugs.


I would think if it were an injector issue that more of the ceramic would be like that, rather than just a couple of scalloped marks.
 
Originally Posted By: pickled
TCW3 will not harm the catalyst. It doesn't have high levels of phosphorous. The naysayers need to think a little before going postal on the OP...I know that it's sometimes hard to do when you look at a topic like this. Your car can burn a full quart of SM rated dino oil with 800ppm of the nasty stuff in 2000 miles and the cat is designed for that type of contamination load to still last >85,000 miles.

The 600:1 2 stroke ratio definitely helps keep fuel pumps alive, and with the in the tank designs containing non-serviceable sub assemblies (even the fuel fiters are in the tanks on some models- a crazy concept) this is an absolute blessing! MMO probably does the same type of thing, but it costs more hence why guys are burning the 2 stroke to deal with the evil corn juice!


Nicely said. Problem with the naysayers is a lot of them never tried the stuff in discussion, and bash it on what they think, or someone elses opinions.

In the OP's case, I would cut the dose back, after I swap out those plugs.
 
Google lead me to the LS1 forum where Sarge has been posting about this.

I think what we have here is a case of a leader coming up with an idea that sounds good and his flock of followers are doing the 2 step right behind him. Some of the comments by his faithful are very telling...."Sounds good Sarge, I'll try this tomorrow", etc.

All I've seen so far is that Sarge has a lot of clout over there, and he decided to try something on the fringe that would be hard to prove or disprove. So we end up with a lot of "I think this works"..."it feels smoother"..."this is lubricating my fuel pump/injectors"...etc. IOW, butt dyno stuff.

BTW, there is another thread on the same forum where people were making fun of this, but the mods shut it down.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/general-ls...heir-gas-2.html

Even in this thread the fuel pump lubrication was given as a reason for doing this, then it was pointed out that it's a sealed unit and couldn't possibly be helped by 2 cycle oil in the gas. The response was that he realized it was sealed and didn't know why it was quieter, it just was. Then, LATER IN THE SAME THREAD, Pickled says that it "definitely helps keep fuel pumps alive".

My point is that it's obvious that many of you 2 cycle users really don't know WHAT it's doing, it seems like you're just doing it cuz Sarge is doing it, and the payoff is that it makes you feel good.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong about doing something because it makes you feel good. But if that's all it is, I don't want to be told that there are other benefits when there really aren't any.
 
OT: Plugs.

I was always a Champion user. I found some Auitolite #985's for sale and stuck those in my 4.0L last time. They run much smoother and give me better mpg than the Champions did.

They have 25K on them at the moment and I'm still happy with them. I bought a 2nd set to replace them with.
 
I didn't know anything about this Sarge guy. We did it here about a year ago to try and combat the corn juice. When a fuel pump starts to leak down (i.e. internal back pressure regulation goes away) or acts funny we have thrown mix gas at it and it makes things better for quite some time before the problem recurs. Typically there is no way to fix that type of issue other than an in-tank pump service. I'd say that's proof enough to me that it does something. If you would like you can set up an EWMA control chart and watch your average MPG pop up by about 1.5% on the second tank of mix. Remove the TC-W3 and the mean shift goes right away. It's repeatable as heck and if you search the threads that were posted here previously you will see that I am not alone on this observation. All and all I can't explain how the stuff works from a thermodynamic/chemical point of view, but the data indicates that it does.

I've also noticed that when you pull a cylinder head off from a 2 stroke running TC-W3 4 cycle mix at 500:1 the normally hard carbon deposits are soft and fleck off quite easily. When my local guy pulls a head off for a gasket swap I'll see if I can get some pictures on a 2 stroker...it's quite amusing. Again I don't know how, but the stuff does stuff and it's a lot cheaper than the old minty smelling MMO LOL!
 
I've used it for so long now, I can actually tell when my wife gassed up the Aerostar and the MMO isn't in the gas. The idle is smoother when I add MMO to the gas, and the plugs stay cleaner longer. For me it works, and I don't think it's in my head.

Long before message boards were even thought of I was adding MMO to gas. One of these days I will try to compare TCW3 to MMO and see if one is actually better than the other. The only thing I can see is TCW3 is cheaper. But MMO can be added to oil TCW3 can't, and that is probably why I keep going for MMO.
 
Those plugs show a hot enough heat range to burn off deposits, but the metal seat area which is like the combustion chamber is sooty.
This indicates a heavy oil mixture.
Lighten up the dosage, or use MMO instead.

I alternatively use 2 stroke and MMO in my gasoline all the time.

Proof of lubrication? Tough to quantify. But to qualify it's use requires only common sense concerning fuel pumps, ethanol, valve guides and valve sealing, and general top end lubing. Also a bit of cleaning with MMO is very likely.
 
Originally Posted By: hate2work
My point is that it's obvious that many of you 2 cycle users really don't know WHAT it's doing, it seems like you're just doing it cuz Sarge is doing it, and the payoff is that it makes you feel good.


I was using 2 cycle oil in my fuel long before I ever read about this Sarge fellow doing it.
 
thanks for the pics. I have been using TCW3 oil since 2001 in all my 4 stroke engines. Never had a problem. My motorcycle engine had clean valves and carbs after almost 100,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: hate2work
My point is that it's obvious that many of you 2 cycle users really don't know WHAT it's doing, it seems like you're just doing it cuz Sarge is doing it, and the payoff is that it makes you feel good.


I was using 2 cycle oil in my fuel long before I ever read about this Sarge fellow doing it.


+1 when I started using MMO most like Sarge was either a Private or still in school. No disrespect to Sarge, but adding MMO or Two Cycle oil happened a very long time ago. Obviously there is/was some benefit to it because it is alive and well today. A special thanks to Sarge for keeping it alive!
thumbsup2.gif
 
What's next? Mixing some diesel or cooking grease with our gas?
smirk2.gif


I can see the MMO, but NOT 2-cycle oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: GMBoy
What's next? Mixing some diesel or cooking grease with our gas?
smirk2.gif


I can see the MMO, but NOT 2-cycle oil.


Do you know what the difference is between MMO and TC-W3 2 stroke oil?

The TC-W3 has less ingredients. Most have only 3. Highly refined oil. Solvent. Dye.
 
For all the folks that throw negative comments out there like water I must ask..."What are the disadvantages of this practice at a 500:1 or less ratio?" I am truly looking forward to being enlightened based on all the comments I've read above. Please bound your prose in the areas of performance, reliability and/or NAAQS.
 
All I know is that 2 cycle oil gums up and leads 2 cycle engines to an early stasis so it isn’t something I’d volunteer for. MMO ungums things.

I’m not much for additives that only work when you add them and I learned some time ago that single additive single tank testing was beyond worthless as there is too much degrading in a powertrain for a single additive to handle. All I read tells me there is too little long term benefit for 2 cycle oil especially when used alone. What MMO and other additives can do for me on this tank is much less important than the cumulative effects over the life of the engine.

Fuel pump motors are not sealed except from your prying eyes unless you pry with a die grinder. Gasoline lubricates and cools the brushes and carrier oil could effect lifespan.
 
wow.some of these people attacking this use sound like the people on auto-defend/auto attack of ARX.lol.give things a try before starting to type folks.i've used 2 cycle and mmo and nothing.on my sidekick 2c and mmo both make it run quieter.
 
"For all the folks that throw negative comments out there like water I must ask...What are the disadvantages of this practice at a 500:1 or less ratio"

What is the advantage to doing it?

There is no disadvantage, besides the hassle and the cost which are minor. I'd worry about my O2 sensors, personally. But I see absolutely no advantage to doing this whatsoever.


It would be like me posting that I wear a red cowboy hat every time I drive my car, and it has 300,000 miles and runs like a top, so everybody should be doing it. What is the disadvantage beside a few bucks at a party store? If you've never worn a red cowboy hat, then you don't understand how it makes everything about your car better. Have you ever even tried a red cowboy hat?

And you might say "what is the advantage of this stupid hat" and all I would reply is "what is the disadvantage?"
 
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I posted what I and others have experienced as positive effects. I have even validated my own personal observations with sound statistical analytical techniques and blocking protocols that show there is only a 5% chance that the results obtained were due to random events alone. I guess that's what I get out of the TC-W3. I might have to go buy a red hat though to make sure they stick LOL!
 
Originally Posted By: severach
All I know is that 2 cycle oil gums up and leads 2 cycle engines to an early stasis so it isn’t something I’d volunteer for. MMO ungums things.


There are different types of 2 cycle oils. TC-W3 is specifically designed to be a cleaner burning and self cleaning formula.
 
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