South Carolina court rules driving 55 supicious

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If someone was driving 55 on the highway up here, I'd WANT them to be pulled over, because they would be causing accident every 10 seconds. Up here nearly everyone drives 70-75. Quite a lot do 80. The NYS Troopers won't bother anyone doing 75- ever. 80 your pushing it, but still won't bother you in most cases. I've driven 55 on the highway here exactly once. It was the time I left my school with my fuel range saying "0 miles to empty" and drove 30 miles home to fill up. Only time.

Where I-87 goes through the Albany/Rensselaer the speed limit is 55. NOBODY drives that. 65 is the absolute minimum. There was an article I read a while back, that said "there is a section of I-87 in albany where the percentage of people that obey the speed limit is 3%". That is true.
 
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Originally Posted By: Al

I seem to be on of those rare breed on here that thinks (for the most part)..Cops are not Franksteins swooping down on poor motorists from their Black Helicopters.


So, you've been pulled over, but only when you were guilty of doing something; yet you think it's reasonable for someone else to be pulled over while obeying the law? Your logic confounds me.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Al

Nit Pick all you want but an officer can find 'something' with respect to your driving or your car (in short [any reason]....


You seem to be OK with that. Sorry, it's that kind of bowing down that leads to the ever increasing police state and further trashing of the constitution.


Drew, stick to your guns here. Most police I know want the exact same thing you do. The only way they get more is if we give it.

Lately the best thing you can do is make sure your phone is recording the conversation or the video is on!

The idea that you can allow anything but a (insert term here) is a bit naive at the least. Once the line is crossed it's pretty hard to stop...

We live in unique times. Our government has a rule for setting speed limits. It's called the "85th percentile". But they ignore it, and the only reason they do is to generate revenue.

The cops are doing what they can, but many are frustrated and not representative of the whole force.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
If someone was driving 55 on the highway up here, I'd WANT them to be pulled over, because they would be causing accident every 10 seconds. Up here nearly everyone drives 70-75. Quite a lot do 80. The NYS Troopers won't bother anyone doing 75- ever. 80 your pushing it, but still won't bother you in most cases. ...


Enforcement on the Northway (I-87, north of Albany) varies. I've been ticketed for 72 (where posted 65mph), in the Town of Chazy, at the U-turn by the exit. Up this way, 75 might get you a roadside conversation.

EDIT: I pled the ticket down to Disobeying a Traffic-control Device to lower the points.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
If someone was driving 55 on the highway up here, I'd WANT them to be pulled over, because they would be causing accident every 10 seconds. Up here nearly everyone drives 70-75. Quite a lot do 80. The NYS Troopers won't bother anyone doing 75- ever. 80 your pushing it, but still won't bother you in most cases. I've driven 55 on the highway here exactly once. It was the time I left my school with my fuel range saying "0 miles to empty" and drove 30 miles home to fill up. Only time.

Where I-87 goes through the Albany/Rensselaer the speed limit is 55. NOBODY drives that. 65 is the absolute minimum. There was an article I read a while back, that said "there is a section of I-87 in albany where the percentage of people that obey the speed limit is 3%". That is true.


So, who gets to decide what's appropriate, and where do you draw the line? The cop patrolling that strip of road gets to decide? No thanks, I'll go with the posted limits.

Either the law needs to be changed, or the enforcement patterns need to be changed. We don't need to selectively pull people over for actually obeying the law.

That said, I've driven several hundred thousand miles in my lifetime, a lot of it on I95, and I've never seen traffic driving in full view of a cop (marked or unmarked) travelling at 10-15mph over the speed limit.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Al

I seem to be on of those rare breed on here that thinks (for the most part)..Cops are not Franksteins swooping down on poor motorists from their Black Helicopters.


So, you've been pulled over, but only when you were guilty of doing something; yet you think it's reasonable for someone else to be pulled over while obeying the law? Your logic confounds me.


Really. Al seems to be saying his local police force is reasonable but it's A-OK if others aren't. And if you don't agree you're an alarmist.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

From what I've gleaned over the years, probable cause is ANYTHING a police officer wants it to be in order to justify his/her actions. I bet in the case at hand, they used 5 mph under the speed limit to justify pulling over a vehicle that had a Rastafarian lookin dude in the car with the hope of finding a crime.


That may be PC in the cops' mind, but not the courts (fortunately). The unfortunate part of this is that a lot of time is wasted and a lot of cases which should actually be prosecuted get summarily dismissed because poor police procedure. Talk to any local prosecuting (or defense) attorney, and ask them the number of cases that are dismissed. You'll be shocked at the number, which ranges from 30-40% depending on where you live. An overwhelming number of these are because of poor evidence.

The rules are there to protect all of us, and I'm thankful for that.
 
I will eat my own shorts if Al were to be arrested for DWB :)

Seriously, I have often wondered if driving at or under speed limit could get anyone pulled over. There was a week when I religiously drove under speed limit to get the most mileage out of my vehicle and it was difficult. The only people who drive that slow around New England are blue haired ladies *and* teenagers with learner's permit. I have got a son who is going through that process and it is absolutely scary to drive under speed limit especially on the highway with him. Unfortunately, junior drivers are absolutely forbid to break the speed limit and that alone makes them very dangerous on road.
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The legal speed limit on the road was 60 MPH, but Davy was driving at 55 MPH. Some automakers, fearing liability concerns, intentionally build speedometers that read seven percent too high, or about 5 MPH. It is quite possible for a motorist driving 55 MPH on a 60 MPH road to have cruise control set precisely at the speed limit.

Officer Jonathan Montjoy did not see it that way. He noted that most traffic was cruising at between 70 and 75 MPH, so anyone driving the speed limit would be guilty of impeding traffic. At trial, the judge found that state law prohibits impeding traffic, no matter what the speed limit might be, so the traffic stop was ruled valid.
As it can be seen, the traffic stop was ruled valid even though he was not exceeding the speed limit. As it has been insinuated, we can all guess the real reason that car was pulled over and in a free country that should not be acceptable.

- Vikas
 
I would say driving 10MPH or more UNDER the limit begins to creste a significant impairment. (And everyone's ability is not the same, thats true, but then that speaks to the issue of licensing.) I can drive better than anyone on the road except for trained LEOs (and even then, its even) and i have no license. The reasons have nothing to do with driving, rather economics. Plain and simple, regardless the origin of that situation. Time heals all wounds.

Some people drive 50MPH on a 70MPH road, and that state has a sign "MINIMUM 50MPH MAXIMUM 70MPH." Guess the state.
 
The question I have is if the Police officer would have conducted the traffic stop if the driver and passenger were not suspicious looking, and driving 5 mph under the speed limit?

If the answer is no, then that is an automatic profiling case, but you are rarely ever going to get an officer to freely admit that he was profiling a vehicle for a traffic stop.

My next question is if he pulled over this same vehicle, with the same occupants, and lets say that this time, they did not have drugs in their vehicle, would the officer have then issued them a ticket for doing 5pmh under the ticket, or would he have released them unharmed?

If he was not going to issue a ticket for doing 5 mph under the speed limit, then again, the officer is guilty of profiling, hoping to find them guilty of some other crime. Why pull someone over if you aren't going to issue them a ticket for the "violation" they committed.

Again, these people did not violate any motor vehicle law at the time that they were pulled over. A simple "I was doing the speed limit, and had my cruise control set to 60 mph because I didn't want to get a speeding ticket and hand over several hundred dollars of my hard earned money" is the only thing you would need to tell the officer when he pulls you over, and tells you you were going mighty slow.

Let him tell you that you need to speed up, and see how that flies in the face of a judge. Get his name, and badge number, and then the next time you get pulled over, fight the ticket, subpena the officer, and have him recite what he instructed you to do that night. Watch the fireworks between the officer and the judge at that point.

To make it even more fun, have a great big 1 quart ziplock bag on the seat next to you filled with Tide laundry detergent, and then see how much farther things go. That could be lots of fun. Have some clothes in the backseat, and tell him you're on your way to do laundry, just for the heck of it.

Fun times you will have that night, I can guarantee.

BC.
 
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
rmed?

If he was not going to issue a ticket for doing 5 mph under the speed limit, then again, the officer is guilty of profiling, hoping to find them guilty of some other crime. Why pull someone over if you aren't going to issue them a ticket for the "violation" they committed.


So you are in favor of an officer of giving a ticket every
time he pulls you over? Speak for yourself.
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To make it even more fun, have a great big 1 quart ziplock bag on the seat next to you filled with Tide laundry detergent, and then see how much farther things go. That could be lots of fun. Have some clothes in the backseat, and tell him you're on your way to do laundry, just for the heck of it.

Fun times you will have that night, I can guarantee.

BC.


Great idea.
whistle.gif
And we wonder why our Police protection costs so much.
 
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No, I'm in favor of ALL police officers treating ALL motorists exactly the same.

You don't treat a person doing 5 under the limit and obeying all laws of the road in a negative way when there are people exceeding the speed limit all around that person by 10+ mph.

If you are a police officer, and there's two cars on the road, one doing just under the speed limit, and another doing 15 mph over, why is the one that is targeted the one that is obeying the law?

That screams profiling, even if you aren't willing to admit it.

So basically, if you obey the speed limit, they can pull you over. If you disobey the speed limit, they can pull you over. If you drive with the flow of traffic, they can pull you over.

So, exactly what is it that helps them decide to single vehicle X out of the crowd, and pull it over for a traffic stop? Profiling is the only answer.

They know from experience that there is a higher probability of getting a drug bust from a vehicle that contains people that look a certain way. Last time I checked, profiling was, oddly enough, against the law.

When exactly is it a good thing for a police officer to break the law to catch criminals? And when is it a good thing for the courts to potentially uphold the officer breaking the law in order to catch a criminal?

Hence my point.
If I have dirty laundry in my back seat, and a bag of white powder in a plastic bag on my passenger seat, and get pulled over, how might an officer react if I looked like the person in the original article? How about if I looked like a clean cut white guy? How about a mom with her 3 kids in the back seat?

Why does the one guy get a different reaction from the cop compared to the other two sets of people?

Where do we draw the line as a society?

BC.
 
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Why pull someone over if you aren't going to issue them a ticket for the "violation" they committed.

I am merely speaking against this statement

Quote:
If I have dirty laundry in my back seat, and a bag of white powder in a plastic bag on my passenger seat, and get pulled over, how might an officer react if I looked like the person in the original article? How about if I looked like a clean cut white guy? How about a mom with her 3 kids in the back seat?

Herein lies the reason that the TSA strip searches 80 y.o. grannies. Do-gooders never seem to put actions and consequences together.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Herein lies the reason that the TSA strip searches 80 y.o. grannies. Do-gooders never seem to put actions and consequences together.


The moment you start excluding 80 year old grannies is the moment cash strapped grannies will start dealing drugs to subsidizing their retirement.

Don't laugh, a large percentage of prescription drug resellers are seniors who couldn't afford retirement.

Just got pulled over by a cop this afternoon and let go without a ticket. I almost ran a red light (manage to stop 3' pass the lane and back off, with tire smoking). She asked what was happening and I told her the glare from the sun makes it hard to see the yellow, and I was driving a borrowed car because my car is in repair. Apparently young professional looking Asian nerd in a corolla will never be a drunk driver, so I propose we should profile anyone else (white, latino, black) that doesn't look like a nerd (that would include you). Do you think it make even any remote sense?
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Quote:
Why pull someone over if you aren't going to issue them a ticket for the "violation" they committed.

I am merely speaking against this statement

Quote:
If I have dirty laundry in my back seat, and a bag of white powder in a plastic bag on my passenger seat, and get pulled over, how might an officer react if I looked like the person in the original article? How about if I looked like a clean cut white guy? How about a mom with her 3 kids in the back seat?

Herein lies the reason that the TSA strip searches 80 y.o. grannies. Do-gooders never seem to put actions and consequences together.





My goodness, what are you going to say if I get a job working for the TSA as a TSO because they are hiring at my local airports.
whistle.gif
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
I'm surprised he wasn't run over, it certainly is suspicious.


I never thought I'd see the day that driving 55mph in a 60mph zone would be regarded as "suspicious." I suppose driving 60mph in a 60 mph zone would be regarded as equally suspicious.

Motorist: Why did you pull me over, officer?
Officer: Because you were doing the speed limit.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear

The moment you start excluding 80 year old grannies is the moment cash strapped grannies will start dealing drugs to subsidizing their retirement.

Well..I understand. But for now doesn't it make sense to profine young middle aged men of MidEastern decent.

Seriously I am of German Descent. (No not German American..I'm an American.) If People of German Descent were blowing up airplanes I would welcome being searched along with the other Germans if I were getting on the Plane..seriously. Political correctness (by the do-gooders) ftl.
 
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