son got the Subaru!!

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THANKS GUYS!!!! my son got a 2012 Subaru outback premium with all weather package. nice car. he did all the negotiating himself. i think he is paying $25,800. we test drove it a week ago. very nice car!!! thanks guys!! bob
 

gathermewool

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My buddy just got the same model and package. I'd like to think I had a role in that. thankyou crackmeup My next vehicle (hopefully not for many years) will most likely be whatever the '12 Forester's equivalent is. I love the CVT, AWD and utility of the SUV/Wagon Subies. Btw, my buddy says he's getting right around 30 mpg, though he does drive a lot of highway. That seems fantastic to me for what this thing is.
 

Robertslowpoke

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thanks Matt! how do you like your 2008 sti? i was always curious about them! the young salesman has one. he did exhaust, suspension and programmed the engine. I know nothing about that! 1. if you do these changes, do you kill your warranty?(funny!) 2. will car pass inspection in Massachusetts?(cannot drive without) 3. will you kill your engine? (not funny) he said he got around 400 horsepower. is that true? thanks! bob
 

gathermewool

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Originally Posted By: Robertslowpoke
thanks Matt! how do you like your 2008 sti? i was always curious about them! the young salesman has one. he did exhaust, suspension and programmed the engine. I know nothing about that! 1. if you do these changes, do you kill your warranty?(funny!) 2. will car pass inspection in Massachusetts?(cannot drive without) 3. will you kill your engine? (not funny) he said he got around 400 horsepower. is that true? thanks! bob
I love my STI. I can fit TONS of stuff in it (not nearly as much as your son's new ride, mind you) but still get up to haul [censored] when I want. I started out modding without wanting to affect comfort and practicality too much. I've added stiffer springs that even out the front/rear springs rates, without lowering the car much (5 mm or 1/5".) I've also installed stiffer anti-sway bars, which also increase spring rates, but don't add any more harshness to the ride. The drawback of stiffer sways is that I've lost some suspension independence, so going over angled bumps tend to cause loss of traction or full-on wheel lift in some cases. I've also added a lot of bushings, which have locked everything down, but I think I've gone too far, because the noise is nearly unbearably loud at high speeds on the highway. I usually cruise on the highway at the speed limit, so it hasn't made want to remove some of them...yet. I have no idea what mods the young sales guy did to his exhaust, but the most common is to replace the down-pipe, which is the exhaust portion that starts at the turbo charger and continues on downstream. The aftermarket down-pipe is one section of pipe that contains either one high-flow catalytic converter (read less restrictive) or none. This replaces the stock two-piece down-pipe and the two catalytic converters, one in each of the two sections. STI's are pretty sensitive to mods like this, and require that the car's computer (ECM) be reprogrammed. The easiest, albeit most expensive, way is to buy a little OBD-2-powered dongle called an Accessport made by Cobb. The Cobb Accessport is used to download and store the stock map before replacing it with an off-the-shelf map that Cobb has developed in their own STI's. They offer maps for specific mods. For instance, your sales guy, if he replaced the stock down-pipe with an aftermarket one, would have loaded onto the ECM what is known as a stage 2 map. If an owner wants to modify beyond the scope of the off-the-shelf maps, then it behooves them to have a professional tune their car on a dynomometer so that the ECM's "tune" can be adjusted accordingly. The off-the-shelf maps are conservative, but running modifications that are not covered by the tune may cause major issues, and even engine damage. For instance, the Stage 2 tune only allows for replacement of the stock down-pipe for one with a single high-flow catalytic converter. A lot of people, due to the cheaper price tag, opt for a down-pipe that has zero catalytic converters (catless.) Running a Stage 2 tune with a catless downpipe, the ECM will try to compensate for the lesser backpressure, but may not be able to, and the turbo may overboost and potentially damage the turbo or engine. Me, I don't have any exhaust modifications, but do have a Cobb-approved cold-air intake system. I run what's called the Stage 1 + AEM (cold air intake) map.Cobb offers those who do not want to modify anything at all (completely stock car) what's called a Stage 1 tune. This ups the boost and increases the timing, but requires specific fuel octane, based on what's available across the country - there are Stage 1 maps for 93 octane, 91 octane, and the [censored] 91 octane available in Cali, Arizona and Nevada known as the 91ACN map. The aftermarket tunes, if done by a reputable company like Cobb, or by a professional such as EFI Logics here in CT, are said to be much safer than the stock tune, because the stock tune allows for very high air-to-fuel ratios while under boost and heavy load, which is speculated to be for emissions compliance. Aftermarket tunes drop the AFR at the onset of boost, and the off-the-shelf tunes are usually conservatively rich to combat knock and potential engine damage at high loads. I kind of digressed, but to answer your questions: 1. if you do these changes, do you kill your warranty?(funny!) As with any warranty, it will be voided by the manufacturer if the modification is the cause of the failure. Proponents of the aftermarket tunes who think they are safer (I am one) will argue that a warranty should NOT be voided due modifying the tune, but I disagree. I don't believe it is Subaru's responsibility to determine whether you screwing with the car's computer caused the failure. As the old saying goes, "you've got to pay to play." If you want your warranty in-tact, then don't mod, unless you're prepared to foot the bill if the motor blows up. 2. will car pass inspection in Massachusetts?(cannot drive without) Stage 1 tunes (stock car) do not affect any of the emissions components (catalytic converters,) so yes. Stage 2, which is what your sales guy seems to be at, maybe not. Some high-flow-catted down-pipes are good enough to allow for normal operation, while others will throw a cat inefficiency code. However, there's a feature that allows any tuner, including those using off-the-shelf tunes with the Cobb Accessport, to turn off any check engine light, including the cat inefficiency code. So, to answer your question, it should pass emissions, unless the tech gets a hair across his butt and decides to check under the car. It WILL fail visual inspection in states that require it, if the tech there knows what to look for. 3. will you kill your engine? (not funny) Depends on the tune and the tuner. I've been at Stage 1 for most of my cars life and it runs like new at 43k miles. There are those who have cars at stage 2 and beyond with over 100k miles. Like any sporty car, it's all about how you treat and maintain it. 4. he said he got around 400 horsepower. is that true? This depends on his actual mods and whether he's guessing or had it put on a dynomometer to verify. Not every dyno reads the same, either. Some will read very high, while others are very conservative. Also, a dyno will read what the ouput is at the wheels, which is a lot less than the crank horsepower that manufacturers list. If all he has done is replace the down-pipe and is using an off-the-shelf tune, then 400 at the crank is very optimistic. These bad boys come with 305 chp from the factory, and a Stage 2 tune is around a 15% gain, which puts you in the 350 chp range.
 

gathermewool

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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Excellent! Nice car! MT I hope?
I believe the ltd only comes with the CVT, which is what I would get. I'm all about manually shifting, but the gas mileage of the CVT can't be ignored.
 

Robertslowpoke

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THANK YOU MATT!!!! i printed your great answer out and will learn about understanding it! I have a SUPERB mechanic as a friend, will speak with him! thanks so much. avoid speeding tickets!!!!! great car you have! bob
 

gathermewool

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Originally Posted By: Robertslowpoke
THANK YOU MATT!!!! i printed your great answer out and will learn about understanding it! I have a SUPERB mechanic as a friend, will speak with him! thanks so much. avoid speeding tickets!!!!! great car you have! bob
Haha, thanks. I've actually only got one speeding ticket to my name, and it was during a time when I WASN'T speeding - go figure. Most of the time, it's much more comfortable (and less stressful, not having to keep an eye out for cops) to set the cruise to 65 mph and listen to some jams or talk radio. When I'm on longer trips, I'm never really in a hurry to get there. The STI also DRINKS gas at anything >70 MPH. I can get 24-26 MPG at 65 MPH, but it drops down to 21-23 MPG at 75 MPH, so it's just not worth it most times. WOT to get up to the speed limit or through the twisties, however... drive banana
 
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Originally Posted By: gathermewool
However, there's a feature that allows any tuner, including those using off-the-shelf tunes with the Cobb Accessport, to turn off any check engine light, including the cat inefficiency code.
Does the Accessport just turn off the CEL (like any hand held code scanner) so that it could come back in a few cycles, or does it actually 'write' the catcon code out of the ECM entirely, with NO trace, like an ECM edit/tuning device would?? If the latter, I always thought that this was illegal to sell to the general public? shrug
 
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To add to this Cobb Maps are something to be desired in terms on drivability and refinement. They made my car run so rich you would bog unless spooled already. Stock programming back in and problem solved. Bucking shifts, more cruise modulation on the highway. If you are serious about modding and getting more power. Get it tuned on a dyno by a proffesional. The OTS maps are fun but the fuel economy from running so rich was less than desired.
 
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