This article, from the Detroit Free Press, claims that there is no benefit to spending extra money on synthetic oils and that all oils are pretty much the same.
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/oil15e_20040715.htm
Any thoughts?
Something to stir the pot
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What was interesting was that the article says that Chrysler specifies regular dino oil for all their vehicles, except the Viper, for which they specify synthetic, but then never explain why. Sort of a half a**ed researched/written comment to make.
But I do agree that most dont get the most benefit out of using high priced synthetics. I know I didnt, when I was using Amsoil, as I changed it alot earlier than I probably should have.
![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon}
as if the automakers had what is in the consumers best interest in mind... The automakers are realizing that people are using better oils now and they are afraid we won't have to buy another rig from them every 3 years anymore. They have to do something to protect their sales.quote:Interesting.
Some synthetic oils claim to last as much as 15,000 miles, but "we see no evidence of that," Chrysler's King said. "They have not demonstrated it, so we do not accept it."
I would agree with the general spirit of the article.
A regular car will do fine with standard Pennzoil or Motorcraft. If you have a Viper, Vette, or whatever, then you need a full syn.
All the stuff in between is mostly a lot of marketing and profiteering. I think they are mainly taking a shot at the HM and Blends in the +$2 range.
quote:I'm thinking a few MB and Toyota owners may not agree...although MB owners got some $ for the trouble. I think oils now are better than the past. I think we can select the best oil for our engines. And I don't think it's a waste of money to use the best match oil, and tailor a personal OCI. This article is on the edge of setting my BS meter off....
As long as you follow the manufacturer's recommendations, you can't go wrong,"
My take:
1) The only automotive company they talked to was Chrysler. Recommend it for a Viper, but no other vehicle yet fail to expain why.
2) I agree that oil is oil in regards to the new categorization of oils. New Vehicle oil, High mileage, SUV oil. There are plenty of non SUV's that can benefit from 5w-40s and plenty of older cars that can run, for example, Mobil 1's 5w-30 which is labeled as "new vehicle" formula.
3) If you find any run of the mill oil with the starburst symbol, in the grade reccomended by the manufacturer, that is API certified then yes that should do. But that is the bare minimum. How many of us in our daily lives live to meet the bare minimums? People usually go above and beyond the minimum requirements on most anything - and in this case the use of synthetics, although not always warranted, has shown in general to provide better protection for an engine. If we should just stick to bare minimums, why do people take vitamins, exercise vigorously or get designer rims on their cars when the vitamins from food, 30 minutes 3 times a week of exercise and regular stock steel rims would do just fine?
Overall this article caters to old school garage mentality.
quote:Has Tracey King informed the European counterparts at MB about not being able to go 15k miles on any oil. Maybe MB doesn't test their oil/engine combinations. I don't think Tracey really wants to be saying that. So, the only criteria they use for specifying an oil is whether or not the motor broke in x miles? Great. Give me a Chrysler. My engine might not break! Any see a problem with the thought process here? No wonder DaimlerChrysler is pronounced with the Chrysler silent - as they should be.
Originally posted by novadude:quote:Interesting.
Some synthetic oils claim to last as much as 15,000 miles, but "we see no evidence of that," Chrysler's King said. "They have not demonstrated it, so we do not accept it."
I hesitate to comment, as it may be considered trolling. Consider the source, Detroit. This guy has no business writing an oil article. Plenty of contradictions: 10w-30, no semi-syn 5w-20 but only synth in a Viper...whatever dude. All I have to do is look at the siezed oil pump in my cousin's abused Passat Turbo to know $.89c dino oil failed in her application.
Like I said, I think this article is for the average consumer.
I think they are taking a shot at the Hi-Mileage marketing phenomena, that's all the rage.
Is the average consumer profiting if he spends more than for straight Pennzoil at Wally's, when he buys one of the "NEW" products for a lot more??
I am skeptical of the HM and Blend marketing to consumers too.
If Motorcraft and Pennzoil etc. won't cut it for you, then you probably need a real syn.
quote:Amazing Audi, yesterday in another post you were advocating only dino oil...why the inconsistency? Dan
Originally posted by Audi Junkie: I hesitate to comment, as it may be considered trolling. Consider the source, Detroit. This guy has no business writing an oil article. Plenty of contradictions: 10w-30, no semi-syn 5w-20 but only synth in a Viper...whatever dude. All I have to do is look at the siezed oil pump in my cousin's abused Passat Turbo to know $.89c dino oil failed in her application.
Tracey King obviously needs to go to Germany and teach his bosses at MB a few things. Perhaps he is the perfect example of why Chrysler has so many quality problems.
Typical mainstream automotive article: A little truth, a little BS and no way for the casual reader to distinguish between the two.
It is true that there is a great deal of marketing is just nonsense. The truck and SUV oils seem to be a perfect Why does a truck engine have different requirements than a car? If it did, you could adjust the weight (i.e., go heavier if you are towing/hauling). Some people are in love with their trucks/SUVs and will shell out extra for a re-bottled ordinary oil. ![[I dont know]](/forums/graemlins/dunno.gif)
The author didn’t even attempt to distinguish between the different base oil Groups (which has an effect on price) or the base oil/additive difference between normal and high-mileage oils (which affects price).
And of course, the API has other agendas while the auto makers don’t want the engine to last 200,000 miles. ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif)
--- Bror Jace
The author didn’t even attempt to distinguish between the different base oil Groups (which has an effect on price) or the base oil/additive difference between normal and high-mileage oils (which affects price).
And of course, the API has other agendas while the auto makers don’t want the engine to last 200,000 miles.
--- Bror Jacequote:I drive an 1988 Grand Am and I own a 1987 Lesabre. I would hate to have to buy a newer car. I say, thank goodness our cars last so long so we don't have to buy an expensive, boring, new car every few years. -T
Originally posted by Matt89: I've asked it before, but how many of you would be thrilled about driving a 1988 model economy car / boring sedan right now? Thank goodness they eventually wear out so we can get better technology, safety, and style![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
quote:I drive an 1988 Grand Am and I own a 1987 Lesabre. I would hate to have to buy a newer car. I say, thank goodness our cars last so long so we don't have to buy an expensive, boring, new car every few years. -T [/QUOTE] So what does your Grand Am have? I had a 92 GT 4 door with the HO Quad 4 and the Muncy 5 speed. Most fun I have had with anything since my TR-4. It would run away and hide from anything including all the V-8's I have owned. I would still be driving it, but it was nickle diming me to death.
Originally posted by T-Keith:
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I often read the automotive articles in our local Detroit papers. Though generally well-written, I sometimes find half-truths and misleading statements. No automotive writer can match the collective wisdom of people such as us on BITOG.
Originally posted by Matt89:
I had an '87 Grand Am that I wish I still had. She had 311,000km and never left me stranded in the 6 years I had it, with an annual maintenance cost under $400 per year including oil changes and tires. I lived through being hit head-on with both vehicles at 100km/hr in it about 5 months ago. I'd way rather be driving that right now than making car payments and worrying about getting door dings in my new Mazda 3 (not that I don't love the M3!). The $600 dollar per year insurance was nice too. That article isn't too bad, and if it reduces the amount of people that buy an oil because it's "formulated for engines over 200hp" then it might be a good thing! [ July 15, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: rpn453 ]
quote:
I've asked it before, but how many of you would be thrilled about driving a 1988 model economy car / boring sedan right now?
I had an '87 Grand Am that I wish I still had. She had 311,000km and never left me stranded in the 6 years I had it, with an annual maintenance cost under $400 per year including oil changes and tires. I lived through being hit head-on with both vehicles at 100km/hr in it about 5 months ago. I'd way rather be driving that right now than making car payments and worrying about getting door dings in my new Mazda 3 (not that I don't love the M3!). The $600 dollar per year insurance was nice too. That article isn't too bad, and if it reduces the amount of people that buy an oil because it's "formulated for engines over 200hp" then it might be a good thing! [ July 15, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: rpn453 ]
I really dont see any benefit for synthetics oils in my Application, I have a Ford 460 designed back in the 60's. This thing would probably run on vegatable oil for a very long time. 225,000 miles on it and runs great, doesnt use any oil. I plan on getting another 100,000 miles out of it easy. I can do a supertech oil change with filter for $7.50. How long do you want an engine to last? It seems to me that most cars and trucks go to the junk yard for otherthings like overheating or blown trannies than oil related failures.
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