Something i don't get about synth, dino and blends

daz

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I know little about oil, but from what i've gathered here and elsewhere there are only a very few oils that are true synthetics. Most oils labeled "full synthetic" like castrol are just dino with additives that allow them to call it synthetic. So what then is blend? I know when you're talking about true synthetic, blend means 1/2 dino and and half synthetic. But when the "synthetic" oil such as castrol synthetic is actually dino oil in the first place, what is thier blend? It can't be 1/2 dino and 1/2 synth because it's already all dino with additives. Please explain this to me.
 
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We have no way to know what percentage of a syn blend might be. Unless you blend it yourself.
 
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Most oils labeled "full synthetic" like castrol are just dino with additives that allow them to call it synthetic.
That is where you are mistaken. The base oils are from crude, but they are put through more processing than conventional fundamentally making them different than regular dino.
 
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Originally Posted By: daz
Most oils labeled "full synthetic" like castrol are just dino with additives that allow them to call it synthetic.
Every "over the counter" synth oil is a hydrocracked conventional oil made from crude base stocks (Mobil 1,Edge,UP/PP,SP,QSUD,etc).
 

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Originally Posted By: daz
I know little about oil, but from what i've gathered here and elsewhere there are only a very few oils that are true synthetics. Most oils labeled "full synthetic" like castrol are just dino with additives that allow them to call it synthetic. So what then is blend? I know when you're talking about true synthetic, blend means 1/2 dino and and half synthetic. But when the "synthetic" oil such as castrol synthetic is actually dino oil in the first place, what is thier blend? It can't be 1/2 dino and 1/2 synth because it's already all dino with additives. Please explain this to me.
It isn't "dino with additives", they utilize a group III majority base oil instead of a PAO/AN/Ester majority base. Group III is quite common and is capable of giving performance very close to/indistinguishable from (depending on what traits you are comparing) PAO. Oils are a blend of bases and additives that allow them to meet their desired performance target. To achieve its excellent low temperature performance for example, Mobil utilizes 30% and 70% PAO in their AFE and EP 0w-20 products (respectively). The rest will be a mix of Group III (Mobil's version is called "VISOM"), AN's and Esters. A synthetic blend will be partially comprised of a Group III or PAO (Group IV) base and then a conventional (Group II) base, which likely makes up the majority of the blend.
 
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The North American definition of synthetic is different than some European countries however I've learned enough about oil now that I couldn't care less b We have gas to liquid basestocks that are considered group 3 yet outperform pao on many levels at way less cost to produce and the reality of oil formulations is the approvals the oil meets. Porsche claims all oils that are approved(important) for use in their engines are equal in performance. So they don't care if it's poa,poe',or rhydrocracked mineral basestocks,as long as the oil meets their criteria. That in itself is very telling. And if that's what Porsche believes then who am I exactly to question them. Look at the actual approvals and not meets or exceeds.
 

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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: daz
Most oils labeled "full synthetic" like castrol are just dino with additives that allow them to call it synthetic.
Every "over the counter" synth oil is a hydrocracked conventional oil made from crude base stocks (Mobil 1,Edge,UP/PP,SP,QSUD,etc).
Only if you consider GTL "from crude" and omit a number of the Mobil products (like the EP 0w-20) that still have a majority or at least a relatively high percentage of PAO in their base blend wink
 
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: daz
Most oils labeled "full synthetic" like castrol are just dino with additives that allow them to call it synthetic.
Every "over the counter" synth oil is a hydrocracked conventional oil made from crude base stocks (Mobil 1,Edge,UP/PP,SP,QSUD,etc).
Isn't pennzoil gas to liquid bases and not a hydrocracked mineral
 
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It's true that synthetic oils sold in North America have base stocks partly made from crude oil. But, the crude is processed in a considerably different way than it is for conventional oil. Conventional oil molecules (Group II) are of varying shapes and sizes even after processing. The extra refining to make synthetic oil out of crude oil results in molecules of a uniform size and shape, which makes them perform better. Current North American synthetics are typically a blend of extra-refined crude oil, PAO and esters. Pennzoil synthetics are now made with base stocks made from natural gas. So synthetics are much more than conventional oils with more additives. While some look down at crude oil-based synthetics, they offer performance similar to other synthetics at a better price.
 
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: daz
Most oils labeled "full synthetic" like castrol are just dino with additives that allow them to call it synthetic.
Every "over the counter" synth oil is a hydrocracked conventional oil made from crude base stocks (Mobil 1,Edge,UP/PP,SP,QSUD,etc).
Isn't pennzoil gas to liquid bases and not a hydrocracked mineral
That one always seems confusing. I've heard it described both ways. From what I understand,gad to liquid is PAO,right?? But SOPUS had said their synthetics were GRP III. Who knows shrug
 
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Originally Posted By: Danh
It's true that synthetic oils sold in North America have base stocks partly made from crude oil. But, the crude is processed in a considerably different way than it is for conventional oil. Conventional oil molecules (Group II) are of varying shapes and sizes even after processing. The extra refining to make synthetic oil out of crude oil results in molecules of a uniform size and shape, which makes them perform better. Current North American synthetics are typically a blend of extra-refined crude oil, PAO and esters. Pennzoil synthetics are now made with base stocks made from natural gas. So synthetics are much more than conventional oils with more additives. While some look down at crude oil-based synthetics, they offer performance similar to other synthetics at a better price.
I just can't believe a hydrocracked mineral base has "uniform" sized molecules. That's marketing not science. Though the cool pictures are nice to look at
 
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Legaleze and big money allow oil companies the right to call certain oils "full syn" here in the States. I think in Europe they must be grp IV or V to be listed as syn,someone correct me if i'm wrong.
 

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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: daz
Most oils labeled "full synthetic" like castrol are just dino with additives that allow them to call it synthetic.
Every "over the counter" synth oil is a hydrocracked conventional oil made from crude base stocks (Mobil 1,Edge,UP/PP,SP,QSUD,etc).
Isn't pennzoil gas to liquid bases and not a hydrocracked mineral
That one always seems confusing. I've heard it described both ways.
Not really confusing. It comes from Natural Gas. And while NG comes from the ground like crude I would think most would classify it as a different product. I think what gets people is its classification as a Group III product. Remember, Group V has Esters and AN's listed under it, which are obviously not the same. PAO seems to stand alone in the Group IV section. Just because severely hydrotreated crude and GTL both fall under the Group III moniker doesn't mean we should treat them as the same product.
 
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Originally Posted By: daz
I know little about oil
This part is at least correct. The derogatory way people refer to fake syns vs real syns gets old.
 

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Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
Legaleze and big money allow oil companies the right to call certain oils "full syn" here in the States. I think in Europe they must be grp IV or V to be listed as syn,someone correct me if i'm wrong.
Only in Germany.
 
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Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
Legaleze and big money allow oil companies the right to call certain oils "full syn" here in the States. I think in Europe they must be grp IV or V to be listed as syn,someone correct me if i'm wrong.
So because the Germans do something that makes it correct? I don't think so but if they want to enter the 21st century......
 
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Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
I think in Europe they must be grp IV or V to be listed as syn,someone correct me if i'm wrong.
What does it really matter what group it is? It's not the individual ingredients but the overall final formulation that assures certain level of performance, and that performance is expressed through meeting particular mfg oil specs. Go by the specs, not by MSDS ingredients.
 
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
I think in Europe they must be grp IV or V to be listed as syn,someone correct me if i'm wrong.
What does it really matter what group it is? It's not the individual ingredients but the overall final formulation that assures certain level of performance, and that performance is expressed through meeting particular mfg oil specs. Go by the specs, not by MSDS ingredients.
Exactly. I care about how it performs. I also want to save a buck,so if I can get equal performance from a product that costs me less then it's a no brainer
 
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This thread is one reason why I dont look at the words 'Full Synthetic' or 'Premium Conventional', etc., anymore. I will forever shop based on my vehicle manufacturer's recommended specs, certifications and approvals.
 
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Many are actually dino but are "refined" to a higher degree. If you want synthetic stick to PAO and GTL groups. I'm sure their are a few honest company's but most are simply trying to maximize profit while cutting cost.
 
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