Some really, REALLY good advise !!

[bchannell]

I copied a previous post from back in 2006 about what oil to use in small engines, and I think it ought to be a sticky for anyone trying to decide what type of oil to use. I'm with the rest of you here, I love to read, speculate, prognosticate and generally over think this oil situation. Then, luckily, when it actually comes time to change oil, my common sense kicks in and I use a more sensible choice. Just give it a read, and see if you can't agree with Bror Jace, he's made some very well thought out posts about this very topic. All of this is not to say that synthetic is not a great oil, probably the best, but and it's a big but, if you perform frequent maintenance, then it's not needed. Cost is probably the same, more frequent cheaper oil changes as opposed to less often more expensive maintenance. But for me, and apparently Bror Jace, we like to maintain our stuff more often and keep fresh fluids in them. If you don't want to do that much maintenance, the I implore you to use the best syn you can afford.

Here's the post from 2006, and I think it's probably the best written one on the subject.

"For OPE (Outdoor Power Equipment) I prefer to change the oil fairly frequently (we have about 10 pieces, I change the oil in half each year) so I like to use the very affordable HDEOs which also are great at preventing wear, keeping the motor's internals clean and have a high TBN ... ideal for motors that are stored with the same oil for 6+ months at a time.

And I don't really want to use the same 5W-30 I use in my Sentra SpecV 2.5L (Schaeffer 5W-30 and/or Chevron 5W-30). The stuff thins out (by design) and isn't quite as good as a HDEO for the things I mentioned above.

My big point above was that single weights simply aren't needed anymore. They are made in smaller batches so are often over-priced and usually you get the skimpiest add-pack the manufacturer/blender uses in its entire line. Plus, I some can even accelerate wear on cool-morning starts (below 40F).

I think the synthetics (especially true PAO-types) can be great in these applications. I just try to get by with a cheaper oil I can change more often. [I dont know]

Oh, and my detached garage can get down to below 0F in the dead of winter [Eek!] ... although I rarely let it get much below 20F before I get the wood stove going. [Wink]

For that reason, I will be switching our Ariens snowblower with a Tecumshe 11.5hp Sno-King motor over to Rotella 5W-40 next change. I would have preferred Chevron Delo 0W-30 ... but just try and find the stuff. [Roll Eyes]"

 

[TFB1]

More of what's generally recommended here on BITOG almost every day...BUT it's now 2015, & Briggs is saying oil changes are unnecessary...

Me I'll get around to changing the four year old M1 0W-40 in the Honda-ized Snapper soon(maybe)...

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: bchannell
All of this is not to say that synthetic is not a great oil, probably the best, but and it's a big but, if you perform frequent maintenance, then it's not needed. Cost is probably the same, more frequent cheaper oil changes as opposed to less often more expensive maintenance. If you don't want to do that much maintenance, the I implore you to use the best syn you can afford.


Synthetic doesn't extend the service interval in outdoor power equipment. You should consider conventional and synthetic as having the same exact change interval.

Rule of thumb is change every 50 hours if it doesn't have an oil filter, or every 100 hours if it does have an oil filter.

Originally Posted By: bchannell
Here's the post from 2006, and I think it's probably the best written one on the subject.


There is some good information, but also some outdated information.


Originally Posted By: bchannell
"For OPE (Outdoor Power Equipment) I like to use the very affordable HDEOs which also are great at preventing wear, keeping the motor's internals clean and have a high TBN ... ideal for motors that are stored with the same oil for 6+ months at a time.


HDEO engine oils are ideal for air cooled engines. True.


Originally Posted By: bchannell
And I don't really want to use the same 5W-30 I use in my Sentra SpecV 2.5L (Schaeffer 5W-30 and/or Chevron 5W-30). The stuff thins out (by design) and isn't quite as good as a HDEO for the things I mentioned above.


Synthetic or conventional 5W30? A synthetic 5W30 is pretty stout and will stay at the top of the full line all season, I have found. Conventional 5W30 will consume like crazy and need an ounce of top up oil every hour of use. You would think they would act the same, but it's crazy to see how different they are in actual use.

Originally Posted By: bchannell
My big point above was that single weights simply aren't needed anymore. They are made in smaller batches so are often over-priced and usually you get the skimpiest add-pack the manufacturer/blender uses in its entire line. Plus, I some can even accelerate wear on cool-morning starts (below 40F).


SAE30 is still commonly available, it doesn't really cost any more than a standard conventional oil, and works great in OPE. Its good summer oil for most of the country, or year round oil here in south Florida.

Originally Posted By: bchannell
For that reason, I will be switching our Ariens snowblower with a Tecumshe 11.5hp Sno-King motor over to Rotella 5W-40 next change. I would have preferred Chevron Delo 0W-30 ... but just try and find the stuff.


5W40 is pretty thick for a snow blower. Reason being, it will over cool and never come up to temp which is about 220 degrees F for your average air cooled engine. I would stick with synthetic 5W30 or 0W30 for snow blowers. A 40 weight is simply not needed.

 

[HangFire]

+1 for what bubbatime said, saved me from typing it all in.

 

[Kamele0N]

I run cheapest 5w40 synthetics with diesel specs I can get in the store in my OPE equipment...B&S 3,5HP lawnmover...and Simplicity snowthrover with Tecumseh HMSK 10HP...

Diesel...because of more detergents (ope engs dont have filters)....and diesel oils have higher TBN levels...

I change oil after end of every season (or after every second one...depends of how "good" that season was...) so I am not winterizing my equipment with old oil in it...

Previously I was runing lawnmover on anything from 15w40...10w40...30...but now I am observing that there is almost no oil consumption with synthetic oils...so I am using synthetic only (5w40)

Lawnmover runs fine (cca 20yrs old)...Snowblower 15yrs....without freezing in cold winter because thick and COLD (LoL buba

) xW40 oil in it

 

[JTK]

Maybe a Brorjace post?

We had some great OPE discussions back then. The "what oil is best for my mower" topic has gotten quite stale since.

 

[Bror Jace]

Ha! Thanks bchannel for resurrecting that old post. There's a lot of good info on most lube-related topics in old threads here on BITOG ... but they aren't easy to find.

My favorite was the BITOG "cheapskate" thread from around the same time.

Some updates since it's been 9 years since I wrote that above:

The 5W-30s I mentioned above were conventional (Chevron Supreme) and a synthetic blend (Schaeffer) and hundreds of UOAs later, I have yet to see Schaeffer thin out appreciably ... but then again, I've never seen a UOA out of a tortured piece of OPE.

I'll stick by my previous assertion that a straight weight (say, 30) is no longer needed. You'll get the same results with a 15W-40 in nearly every application ... and it has a better add-pack unless you are using a 30 HDEO. In the lower third of the States, straight 30 might still be popular, but in the rest of North America, the multi weights are better in almost every application ... and the store shelves are (finally) starting to reflect this.

To be clear why HDEOs make a lot more sense in most OPE applications, it's the contaminants that build up in these engines ... wear particles as well as fuel dilution. This happens to any oil you run. If you poured in a high-dollar synthetic, you may be tempted to leave it in longer ... but with the contamination your protection will be diminished. In OPE, synthetics really shine when the temps get into the extremes: hot or cold.

I like the 50/100 oil change interval guideline for engines without/with a spin-on oil filter. That assumes, of course, the engine has at least 10-20 hours on it and has already received 2-3 oil changes to flush out the break-in debris.

Oh, and in my snowblower, I now use Chevron 0W-30 ... I finally found that exotic "Yeti Blood" that eluded me way back in 2006.

5W-40 will still work well ... especially if you have a long driveway and tend to blow for 2-3+ hours at a rip. Since the family of yetis I tapped for that rare elixir have moved far, far away, my next oil for the Ariens will probably be a synthetic 5/10W-30 as my machine is kept in a garage that gets some heat. If consumption increases (and the engine is just now done breaking in), I would consider a 5W-40.

Thanks again, bchannel

 

[bchannell]

I think it's true that oil companies are not putting their best add packs in their 30wt oils, there just isn't enough sales there to justify it. I agree, that the only exception would be a 30wt HDEO, like Rotella T or Delo, which does have a great add pack. But there doesn't seem to be a lot to recommend 30wt in today's world. For the same price as Rotella T 30wt, I can buy Rotella 10W30, and for about $3 more a gallon, I can get Rotella T5 10W30 semi-syn. I just don't see the advantage of using 30wt. Not that it isn't good oil, it is, but because the benefits of a multi-vis 30 outweigh the pros of using straight 30wt. We may even be splitting hairs here, especially above the deep south, but I think it's worth the switch. To my mind, if you want to compare PCMO 30wt to an HDEO 10W30, then the multi-vis wins hands down with it's much better add pack. I looked up some old, OLD, as in antique engine recommendations for oil content and they were espousing oils with upwards to 2500ppm of zinc, for air cooled cars like the VW Beetle and air cooled OPE. I know that small engine technology has come a far piece too, with OHV engines, etc, but I think that only reinforces the notion that multi-vis would be better, with quicker lube to valve components.
As to viscosity, well my thinking is that if you stay in the 30-40wt range you'll be fine. I don't see any harm using a slighly higher vis oil, as long as you don't go overboard. 15W40 HDEO, seems just right in hot summer. 10W30 HDEO would be just as good, and even though I have to admit, it's open for discussion whether thinner or thicker is better, I do kind of lean toward thinner, as being a good thing in OPE, IF it can handle the heat, that's why the HDEO qualifier.
Brar Jace has hit the nail on the head, in that 50/100 oil changes are the way to go, for sure, and that, to my mind, rules out a syn. Not that a good syn wouldn't be really beneficial to the engine, but that contaminants would overcome any benefit, filtered engine or not. I mow 2+ acres a week, and I like to change my oil three times a year for summer OPE, so I'm not going anywhere near the limit of the oil, and syn just isn't needed.
I have VPB 15W40 in both tractors right now, and am ready to put in Rotella T5 10W30 in a few weeks.

 

[jeepman3071]

In my opinion, both PCMOs and HDEOs will do a fine job lubricating small engines. I've torn down engines that have used both and they looked great with the cross hatching still in the bore.

With that said, the important thing to consider is oil burn off. We all know somebody who had a small engine outlast the tool it was mounted to and all they did was add oil, so the viscosity and add pack really aren't "critical" in the grand scheme of things. Since most small engines have splash lubrication, the oil level is more important than the type. Low oil can lead to lack of lubrication which will score bearings, score cylinder walls, and eventually lead to connecting rod failure.

In my experience, PCMOs tend to burn off a bit quicker in small engines, especially those that run for extended periods of time with high loads and/or in hot climates. Combine these factors with an engine that has slightly worn rings and the oil burning is even worse. This isn't a problem when the operator checks the oil frequently but the reality is most people simply don't. Almost all of the engine failures I have seen have been from low or no oil.

Using HDEO in small engines has greatly cut oil consumption in my experience.