Social Obligations -- The Funeral Home Visitation

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted By: Number_35
In some cases the funeral people guilt the survivors into doing it - it's extra money for them.

When my turn comes, they can remember me as I was.

This. I'd put big money on that fact that this practice was normalized by the industry.

 

[PimTac]

When I go to funerals I don’t linger too much at the casket. The better services I’ve been to had photos of the person from throughout their life. That’s the way I want to remember someone, not after they have suffered from a disease for years.

My father died many years ago from cancer. He was severely emaciated as the disease took his toll. My mom left the casket closed and had a 8x10 framed picture on the casket instead from his earlier years of their marriage.

 

[CincyDavid]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: Number_35
In some cases the funeral people guilt the survivors into doing it - it's extra money for them.

When my turn comes, they can remember me as I was.

This. I'd put big money on that fact that this practice was normalized by the industry.


Everyone should remember that there wasn't an "industry" in the funeral trade until fairly recently. Until Service Corp Int'l sprung into being and grew in the 70s and 80s, EVERY funeral and cemetery operator was likely an independent, small businessman who in all likelihood lived above the store, such as it was. These professionals lived in their communities and offered (still offer) valuable services to the community doing something that nobody else wants to do...who else wants to crawl out of bed at 2AM in a snow storm and pick up Mrs. Smith from her couch where she died?

I might argue that social changes have killed the traditional open-casket service:
1. people no longer live in the same community their whole lives...families are spread all over the world and they don't know their neighbors the way they would have 50 years ago so nobody shows up for services
2. people try to shield their kids from death and dying, and think they are doing them a favor by keeping them from funerals...and when the kids become young adults and have to bury their parents they have no idea what to do, so they do as little as possible.

Regardless of the merits of the funeral service, the one thing that I will always cherish about my grandfather's visitation is that I met some of his old buddies, most of whom I had never heard of. They told cool stories, some of which were off-color. I also learned that his nickname as a young man was Red, because he had red hair. I knew him as an old man with a fringe of white hair, and had only seen B&W photos of him. I never would have known he was a red head if I hadn't talked to those old guys. I cherish that day, even though it took place in 1987.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Just box me up and bury me. No service for me. Too much drama as far as I'm concerned.

 

[gman2304]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
There's a young generation who is content with direct cremation, no ceremony or services. To me, that smacks of Taking out the Trash and isn't very respectful.


That's an interesting perspective from your side of the fence. Thank you.

I'm in my 60's and have the exact similar thought about the funeral industry. It's disrespectful. My mom prearranged her funeral for over $15,000 dollars that includes all the bells and whistles (fancy coffin, embalming,etc.). I feel that the funeral industry takes advantage of people and has turned the whole event into a mockery similar to the wedding industry.
. My MIL passed in January. My wife who is an only child, viewed her mother in private and held a closed coffin ceremony at the cemetery. We also saved several thousand dollars by purchasing the casket from a local company that sells them wholesale, and they even delivered it to the funeral home. $1,750 vs $5,000 if purchased from the funeral home. In my state ( NC ) funeral homes are required by law to accept a casket from the family if they desire to provide one. Our biggest expense was paying for the vault, the grave opening, and the hearse. Dying is a big business.

 

[CourierDriver]

I'm going out in style, honor guard, gun shots, taps, flag,,,they can go have a cold one on me when its over,,,A Veterans funeral.....

 

[CincyDavid]

Dying is also a shrinking business, in many respects...40 years ago 2000+ hearses were constructed annually in the US, now I doubt it's more than 750, so jobs at the old Hess & Eisenhardt are no more, the remains of Accubuilt just sold recently (S&S and Superior Coaches). Batesville Casket Co used to run 3 shifts, they are down to one.

On the cemetery side of things, it's not good either...with a full body you HAVE to put the remains somewhere, generally a cemetery. With cremated remains you can keep them at home, spread them in the river, throw them in the dumpster, etc. There is not an absolute need to ever place in the cemetery.

I have no issue with changing expectations, as long as people remember that these folks take care of a situation that the vast majority of modern Americans simply can't deal with by themselves. When that call comes at 2AM, funeral professionals jump into action. It's not much different than what happens if you need a plumber or an attorney..you call the professional and expect him to quickly deal with the situation. I got sticker shock the last time I needed a plumber, but I needed his services, post haste.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: Number_35
In some cases the funeral people guilt the survivors into doing it - it's extra money for them.

When my turn comes, they can remember me as I was.

This. I'd put big money on that fact that this practice was normalized by the industry.


Everyone should remember that there wasn't an "industry" in the funeral trade until fairly recently. Until Service Corp Int'l sprung into being and grew in the 70s and 80s, EVERY funeral and cemetery operator was likely an independent, small businessman who in all likelihood lived above the store, such as it was. These professionals lived in their communities and offered (still offer) valuable services to the community doing something that nobody else wants to do...who else wants to crawl out of bed at 2AM in a snow storm and pick up Mrs. Smith from her couch where she died?

Good points, now the question is how good were the independents' make-up skills?

Surely the modern industry is nothing like it used to be- there's a lot of vultures out there right now getting off on the vulnerability and subdued critical ability of the grieving and otherwise emotionally taxed. They've turned the process into a dealership car sale. Its all an upsell and a 'well if you really loved your family' bit. For my own corpse, still trying to determine the most simple or traditional method tbh.

 

[CincyDavid]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: Number_35
In some cases the funeral people guilt the survivors into doing it - it's extra money for them.

When my turn comes, they can remember me as I was.

This. I'd put big money on that fact that this practice was normalized by the industry.


Everyone should remember that there wasn't an "industry" in the funeral trade until fairly recently. Until Service Corp Int'l sprung into being and grew in the 70s and 80s, EVERY funeral and cemetery operator was likely an independent, small businessman who in all likelihood lived above the store, such as it was. These professionals lived in their communities and offered (still offer) valuable services to the community doing something that nobody else wants to do...who else wants to crawl out of bed at 2AM in a snow storm and pick up Mrs. Smith from her couch where she died?

Good points, now the question is how good were the independents' make-up skills?

Surely the modern industry is nothing like it used to be- there's a lot of vultures out there right now getting off on the vulnerability and subdued critical ability of the grieving and otherwise emotionally taxed. They've turned the process into a dealership car sale. Its all an upsell and a 'well if you really loved your family' bit. For my own corpse, still trying to determine the most simple or traditional method tbh.


There's no question that some corporate entities upsell more aggressively than they should, and make a once-in-a-lifetime event like a funeral a commodity to be packaged and funded in advance. Grief and guilt are powerful emotions, no question.

My take on the corporate giants is this: they are real estate investment companies who incidentally buy funeral homes that are distressed for whatever reason (no heirs to take over, failing neighborhood, bad reputation, etc) and run them indifferently until such time as the real estate is worth more than the funeral business, then sell the property to developers who put up mid-rise office buildings. Per the NFDA, only 14% of US funeral homes are corporately owned. 86& are still family owned small businesses.

There is a move afoot to return to more of a 19th century burial process...placement in a wicker or pine box with no vault, no embalming, and no mowing after burial...let the cemetery return to a more natural state. Green burial definitions vary regionally but we are seeing some movement in that direction.

Fascinating business to be in, and in a huge state of flux at the moment. I find it very fulfilling helping families at the worst time in their lives, and it's my avocation. If I wanted to get rich, I would have gone into a different trade. It's a lot of long hours, and weekends but I feel good when I lay down at night, knowing I served people well.

 

[SZR48207]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I'm going out in style, honor guard, gun shots, taps, flag,,,they can go have a cold one on me when its over,,,A Veterans funeral.....


My uncle recently passed and had elements of that at his funeral. The Army had some uniformed members present who did a "volley"(?) of gunfire and then put the spent casings into a folded US flag and gave it to next of kin.

It was done really well and respectful. I think it's nice that the armed forces have those sorts of traditions upheld.

 

[Mr Nice]

CincyDavid,

I’m sure you have some crazy stories of family members, children, ex spouses, mistress, etc... fighting at a funeral.

 

[Andrew1972]

Its a bit odd.

But if person who is dying asked for it and paid for it why not. I am for the funeral industry having folks prepay top dollar as its the deceased money. When a family is saddled with wishes and the bill I think that industry takes advantage.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I want my ashes spread out over the ocean. It's always been my favorite place to be. No urn,no burial,no way!

 

[NormanBuntz]

+1. I prefer a closed casket or a cremation service.

 

[Shannow]

Never ever seen an open casket at a funeral.

They generally have viewing at the funeral home, the day before for those that want to. For me, seeing my dad that say helped a lot (for what that was worth).

We've depersonalised so much of what makes us human these days. A "representative" box with a few flowers on it and a power point presentation for the person that you aren't going to see again in this life is pretty lame.

 

[CourierDriver]

Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I'm going out in style, honor guard, gun shots, taps, flag,,,they can go have a cold one on me when its over,,,A Veterans funeral.....


My uncle recently passed and had elements of that at his funeral. The Army had some uniformed members present who did a "volley"(?) of gunfire and then put the spent casings into a folded US flag and gave it to next of kin.

It was done really well and respectful. I think it's nice that the armed forces have those sorts of traditions upheld.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I'm going out in style, honor guard, gun shots, taps, flag,,,they can go have a cold one on me when its over,,,A Veterans funeral.....


Me too, actually. Be a cop funeral (FOP) with honor guard and such. Motorcycle officers lead the vehicle procession, etc. Gonna hold up some traffic !! LoL

However, I prefer my casket be closed during visitation and a nice 8x10 or larger of me (in better days) be perched atop the thing with small US flag crossed w/ our State flag on either side of the framed photo. Either side of the casket, some picture boards with photos of my escapades with family and friends throughout life. Honor guard gun salute at the cemetery, and Taps on a bugle followed by Amazing Grace on bag pipes. Yeah baby. Loneranger has left the building.

 

[SaturnIonVue]

Military funerals are among the most respectful ceremonial arrangements that one can have. When my father passed away (a retired 20+ yr. WW2 veteran) his honor guard came all the way from Ft. Sill, OK. which was hundreds of miles from where he was buried. Had we known the distance the guard was to travel we probably would not have requested those arrangements to be consistent with his demeanor of no fuss, no feathers at no time. It was and is, however, a beautiful gift from our government to its veterans and their families.

Over the years, I've made a significant number of visits to Washington D.C. Unless the weather had been bad, I always visit Arlington National Cemetery (because I could) for my own reasons. I have visited many grave sites of household name Generals and Admirals of my post WW2 generation. Almost without fail, I visit the Unknown Soldiers and their honor guard, and the greatest American hero of all time...Audie Murphy's grave site.

It should be remembered that when many of those buried at Arlington were alive, one could not expect to come within 100 yards of them...now since they are dead, anyone who wants to can come within six feet of them.

 

[dave1251]

Because it is not your decision. It is the decision of the deceased's significant other and family.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
In my area, you have the funeral home / cemeteries that represent a known upsell with full retail price structures and you have "disruptive" players ( for lack of a better word ) that are fully accredited mortuaries but undercut the costs of the prep, casket and transport to the cemetery by 50%. My mom was a "Depression baby" to the end and wanted this discounted preparation because she's already pre-paid the plot and vault and didn't want to be, what she thought of as, taken advantage of in her death. I don't doubt that the business model for mortuaries and cemeteries will change in the next decades inclusive of and independent of the popularity of cremation.

The funeral director for the cemetery was telling jokes 30 feet away during my dad's funeral...and I'll never forget that. If that's representative of the "product" they provide, then I can understand why there's the movement away from full service funerals to cremation.
They do provide a service, but at a very high price. Really a license from the state to steal.