So you think that all 2002 Ford's call for 5W20??
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Patman
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From what I understand, Mobil's Drive Clean oil uses a group 1 base, at least in 10w30 and 5w30 form. It's got a great additive package that allows it to meet the SL specs.
NO
The reason Motorcraft 5W-20 is a synth blend is because dino 5W-20 thinned out too quickly.
They HAD to make it a synth blend.
Listen - I've talked to the experts on this and they do NOT recommend using 5W-20 in the Ford V8s.
The 2001-up 4.6L SOHC V8 used in the GTs and the Crown Vics are the same as the pre-01.
The changes that took place (as minute as they are) do NOT deem the need for a thinner oil.
THE ONLY REASON FORD IS SPEC'ING 5W-20 FOR LATE MODEL V8s IS CAFE/EPA.
Can you repeat that?
CAFE/EPA
That's all it is.
If you care about your engine use 5W-30 or 10W-30.
The reason Motorcraft 5W-20 is a synth blend is because dino 5W-20 thinned out too quickly.
They HAD to make it a synth blend.
Listen - I've talked to the experts on this and they do NOT recommend using 5W-20 in the Ford V8s.
The 2001-up 4.6L SOHC V8 used in the GTs and the Crown Vics are the same as the pre-01.
The changes that took place (as minute as they are) do NOT deem the need for a thinner oil.
THE ONLY REASON FORD IS SPEC'ING 5W-20 FOR LATE MODEL V8s IS CAFE/EPA.
Can you repeat that?
CAFE/EPA
That's all it is.
If you care about your engine use 5W-30 or 10W-30.
I thought so too, but I called Mobil and was told group III for the 5w-20. I was very surprised as it doesn't have great specs. If I was told correctly, this must make Mobil Drive Clean 5w-20 the cheapest "synthetic".
Again the real reason why they're making 5W-20 a Group III or synth blend is to prevent it from thinning out too quickly.
Dino 5w-20 turns into something like 5-15 weight oil in a short amount of time when used in the V8s - which as you know isn't too healthy.
So Ford changd the spec to make sure MCraft 5W-20 was a synth blend, which expalins its slight cost increase over the other oils (pennzoil included).
The EXPERTS on the Ford powertrain (V8s specifically) RECOMMEND 5W-30 as it was recommended prior to 2001.
DO NOT USE 5W-20 IN ANY OF YOUR ENGINES REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE MANUAL STATES. Technically it will void your warranty, but your engine will last a lot longer.
Dino 5w-20 turns into something like 5-15 weight oil in a short amount of time when used in the V8s - which as you know isn't too healthy.
So Ford changd the spec to make sure MCraft 5W-20 was a synth blend, which expalins its slight cost increase over the other oils (pennzoil included).
The EXPERTS on the Ford powertrain (V8s specifically) RECOMMEND 5W-30 as it was recommended prior to 2001.
DO NOT USE 5W-20 IN ANY OF YOUR ENGINES REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE MANUAL STATES. Technically it will void your warranty, but your engine will last a lot longer.
look at it this way:
2000 Ford Mustang GT 4.6L SOHC V8 = 5W-30 (Windsor plant)
2001 Ford Mustang GT 4.6L SOHC V8 = 5W-20 (Romeo Plant)
2000 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6L SOHC V8 = 5W-30 (Romeo plant, non-Perf Improved heads/Cams)
2001 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6L SOHC V8 = 5W-20 (Romeo Plant, Perf Improved heads/cams - ala 2001 GT)
The addition of the PI heads and cams does NOT warrant the mandatory use of 5W-20 in the 4.6L SOHC V8.
The engines remained the "same" from 2000 to 2001. There is NO legitimate scientific/engineering-related reason to switch to 5W-20.
The inside sources reveal that Ford did this for CAFE/EPA requirements to increase gas mileage figures.
2000 Ford Mustang GT 4.6L SOHC V8 = 5W-30 (Windsor plant)
2001 Ford Mustang GT 4.6L SOHC V8 = 5W-20 (Romeo Plant)
2000 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6L SOHC V8 = 5W-30 (Romeo plant, non-Perf Improved heads/Cams)
2001 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6L SOHC V8 = 5W-20 (Romeo Plant, Perf Improved heads/cams - ala 2001 GT)
The addition of the PI heads and cams does NOT warrant the mandatory use of 5W-20 in the 4.6L SOHC V8.
The engines remained the "same" from 2000 to 2001. There is NO legitimate scientific/engineering-related reason to switch to 5W-20.
The inside sources reveal that Ford did this for CAFE/EPA requirements to increase gas mileage figures.
Take a look at the HTHS of the 5/20 Motorcraft oil
Whoooa! 3.2 seems minum for this guy's motors,,when run easy
SAE Grade 5W-20
API Service SJ / EC
Gravity, ºAPI 35.0
Specific Gravity, @ 60ºF (15.5ºC) 0.852
Density, lb/gal 7.10
Flash Point, COC, ºF(ºC) 365(185)
Viscosity:
cSt @ 40ºC 49
cSt @ 100ºC 8.8
Viscosity Index 161
HT/HS Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.65
Pour Point, ºF(ºC) -49 (-45)
Sulfated Ash, Wt. % 0.94
Total Base Number (TBN) 7.5
ASTM Color 4.0
Here is the Phillips Trop Artic SL 5/20 for comparison. It meets the Ford and Honda specs
SAE Number Grade ------------ 5W-20
Stock Number 42320
API Gravity 31
Viscosity @ 40 C 53
Viscosity @ 100 C 8.9
Viscosity Index 156
CP @ -30 C, CCS 5800
Flash Point, C (F) 232 (448)
Pour Point, C (F) -35 (-31)
And here is the Trop Artic's 5/30 cold weather data
SAE Grade ------------ 5W-30
Stock Number 42520
Spec Gravity .8516
Flash Point COC, C (F) 210 (410)
Pour Point, C (F) -34 (-30)
cP @ -30 C 4688
cSt @ -40 C (104 F) 65
cSt @ 100 C (212 F) 10.82
Viscosity Index 155
Sulfated Ash, % 0.8
[ November 07, 2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
Whoooa! 3.2 seems minum for this guy's motors,,when run easy
SAE Grade 5W-20
API Service SJ / EC
Gravity, ºAPI 35.0
Specific Gravity, @ 60ºF (15.5ºC) 0.852
Density, lb/gal 7.10
Flash Point, COC, ºF(ºC) 365(185)
Viscosity:
cSt @ 40ºC 49
cSt @ 100ºC 8.8
Viscosity Index 161
HT/HS Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.65
Pour Point, ºF(ºC) -49 (-45)
Sulfated Ash, Wt. % 0.94
Total Base Number (TBN) 7.5
ASTM Color 4.0
Here is the Phillips Trop Artic SL 5/20 for comparison. It meets the Ford and Honda specs
SAE Number Grade ------------ 5W-20
Stock Number 42320
API Gravity 31
Viscosity @ 40 C 53
Viscosity @ 100 C 8.9
Viscosity Index 156
CP @ -30 C, CCS 5800
Flash Point, C (F) 232 (448)
Pour Point, C (F) -35 (-31)
And here is the Trop Artic's 5/30 cold weather data
SAE Grade ------------ 5W-30
Stock Number 42520
Spec Gravity .8516
Flash Point COC, C (F) 210 (410)
Pour Point, C (F) -34 (-30)
cP @ -30 C 4688
cSt @ -40 C (104 F) 65
cSt @ 100 C (212 F) 10.82
Viscosity Index 155
Sulfated Ash, % 0.8
[ November 07, 2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
Alright, here's my view on the whole thing:
Using a different grade of oil will not void your warranty unless Ford proves that using a different oil was the cause of the engine failure (unless they are willing to provide you with free oil changes). Heavier and purer oil (ie: less viscosity span) is always going to provide the best lubrication, but will create more engine drag and use more fuel, as well as increasing oil pressure slightly. You can actually increase horsepower and fuel economy with poorer (thinner) lubrication; increased wear is the trade-off.
Have a look at the viscosities of various motor oils. They have differing viscosities at 100 deg C, but a 15W-50 will have the same viscosity at 100 deg C as a 5W-20 will have at a slightly lower temperature. Take a look at the temperatures you're going to see before the next oil change. For example: If they are very high or you're racing, use a 15W-50. If they are moderate, use a 10W-30. If they are cold, use a 5W-30, 0W-30, or 5W-20. But try to use oils of the lowest span possible (less important with good synthetics).
Using a different grade of oil will not void your warranty unless Ford proves that using a different oil was the cause of the engine failure (unless they are willing to provide you with free oil changes). Heavier and purer oil (ie: less viscosity span) is always going to provide the best lubrication, but will create more engine drag and use more fuel, as well as increasing oil pressure slightly. You can actually increase horsepower and fuel economy with poorer (thinner) lubrication; increased wear is the trade-off.
Have a look at the viscosities of various motor oils. They have differing viscosities at 100 deg C, but a 15W-50 will have the same viscosity at 100 deg C as a 5W-20 will have at a slightly lower temperature. Take a look at the temperatures you're going to see before the next oil change. For example: If they are very high or you're racing, use a 15W-50. If they are moderate, use a 10W-30. If they are cold, use a 5W-30, 0W-30, or 5W-20. But try to use oils of the lowest span possible (less important with good synthetics).
But the most likely scenario in the event of mechanical damage inside the engine is that the maker will stonewall you and you'll be forced to try to prove that your actions didn't cause the damage. I know, it's backwards, but the maker has a bigger legal budget and longer time to drag this out.
Ken
This is probably true. I suppose you should do what they tell you until you're off warranty, but use a 5W-20 that is on the higher side of the SAE20 viscosity range. The effect it would have in terms of decreasing engine life is probably very minimal anyway.
What ?
[ November 07, 2002, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Cressida ]
Esso Superflo, for example:
The 5W-20 has a viscosity of 47 cSt at 40 deg. C. By interpolation, I would guess the viscosity is 20 cSt at about 85 deg. C (probably more like 80 though since it's not perfectly linear?).
The 5W-50 has a viscosity of 17 cSt at 100 deg. C. This is only a 20 degree temperature difference between similar viscosities. Even on the highway, my car (based on coolant temperature) has variations of more than 30 deg. C when outside temperatures vary between -40 deg. C to 40 deg. C at the extremes we get (when I'm using the same thermostat). I would imagine the oil temps vary accordingly.
I'm not trying to come off like I think I'm an expert though, so correct me if I'm wrong.
The 5W-20 has a viscosity of 47 cSt at 40 deg. C. By interpolation, I would guess the viscosity is 20 cSt at about 85 deg. C (probably more like 80 though since it's not perfectly linear?).
The 5W-50 has a viscosity of 17 cSt at 100 deg. C. This is only a 20 degree temperature difference between similar viscosities. Even on the highway, my car (based on coolant temperature) has variations of more than 30 deg. C when outside temperatures vary between -40 deg. C to 40 deg. C at the extremes we get (when I'm using the same thermostat). I would imagine the oil temps vary accordingly.
I'm not trying to come off like I think I'm an expert though, so correct me if I'm wrong.
The specs may show 5W-20 to be a good oil, but in real world runs - the dino 5W-20 thinned out way too quickly into a way too thin of an oil so Ford switched to a synth blend formula to prevent this.
Of course the folks that work on high performance 4.6/5.4 applications will say to use 5W-30.
Whether or not you listen to them is up to you.
I just see no reason to use 5W-20 for the same engine that used 5w-30 just a few years ago.
It's like saying - my engine uses 5W-30. Then saying, it has to use 0W-20 a few months later.
Of course the folks that work on high performance 4.6/5.4 applications will say to use 5W-30.
Whether or not you listen to them is up to you.
I just see no reason to use 5W-20 for the same engine that used 5w-30 just a few years ago.
It's like saying - my engine uses 5W-30. Then saying, it has to use 0W-20 a few months later.
Not making light of possible warranty concerns, but if you verify through oil analysis that a 5w30 has lower wear numbers, oxidation, and nitration than a 5w20 (or vice versa) you can be assured of success with the grade and brand of oil. It will also give you ammunition in a a warranty dispute.
You're not far wrong. Motor oil viscosity varies exponentially with temperature change. I plotted Motorcraft's 5w-20 and Mobil 1 15w-50 on an SAE viscosity vs temp chart and the 5w-20 has the same viscosity at about 70*C (158*F) as the 15w-50 at 100*C.
I have a '94 ford 4.6L V8.
All over the owner's manual, and on the oil cap, it only lists 5W30. However, in the owner's manual,in the "lubrication specifications" in the back in small print it lists both 5W30 AND 10W30.
Has anyone with a new ford read the small print?
Also, the motorcraft oil specs are for SJ. They may have improved for SL for 5W20. Or not.
ILSAC GF3 5W30 are almost 20wt! So 5W20 may not be as different from 5W30 as it first seems.
The ford cobra R uses mobil1 15W50!
I wonder what ford thinks "acceptable levels of wear" is?
All over the owner's manual, and on the oil cap, it only lists 5W30. However, in the owner's manual,in the "lubrication specifications" in the back in small print it lists both 5W30 AND 10W30.
Has anyone with a new ford read the small print?
Also, the motorcraft oil specs are for SJ. They may have improved for SL for 5W20. Or not.
ILSAC GF3 5W30 are almost 20wt! So 5W20 may not be as different from 5W30 as it first seems.
The ford cobra R uses mobil1 15W50!
I wonder what ford thinks "acceptable levels of wear" is?
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