So you think that all 2002 Ford's call for 5W20??

[joee12]

When I purchased my 2002 Ford Explorer Sport Trac with the 4.0 SOHC V6, I was a little worried that I would have to switch to the dreaded 5W20. Surprisingly I found that the 4.0 SOHC takes 5W30, it is stated in the manual and on the oil cap. I was under the assumption that all 2002 Honda and Ford(Mercury and Lincoln too)vehicles are supposed to run 5W20. I am surprised, but not upset, that Ford did not want to run 5W20 in such a gas hog, seeing that they are so concerned with CAFE standards. Any thoughts?? -Joe

 

[Patman]

Does anyone know if the Mustangs specify 5w20 also? If they say you can run 5w30 in your car, then that means you can safely run 10w30 as well, which is what I would definitely run if I were you. Cold starts would never be an issue in Georgia anyways.

 

[Al]

I think the Explorer falls in another (if any CAFE) standard. Its technically a truck. Its a technicality the manufactures pushed to allow them to build gas hogs. They learned their lesson when station wagons pulled down the CAFE - They had to discontinue them. Now they stuff money in regulators pockets and get what they want. Anyway this shows that 5W20 is a CAFE ploy only.

 

[Jay]

From Ford's Motorcraft website:

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5W-20 is the wave of the future. Most Ford Motor Company 2001 model year engines have been designed to use this new oil and Ford Motor Company now recommends it for many older vehicles as well.

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[MolaKule]

Right on AL, "Anyway this shows that 5W20 is a CAFE ploy only. " Just another way that government minimizes freedoms and levies taxes.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jay: From Ford's Motorcraft website:

quote:

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5W-20 is the wave of the future. Most Ford Motor Company 2001 model year engines have been designed to use this new oil and Ford Motor Company now recommends it for many older vehicles as well.

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As for the wave of the future: unless Ford starts making vehicles that don't self destruct they (Ford) will not be in the future. They better worry more about quality and less on their CAFE. BTW I'm not a Ford basher-I'll be happy to ***** about some of recent GM fiascos also.

 

[widman]

Every Ford in this country (Bolivia) has 5w30 in it during warrantee, even the F350's and Expeditions. People seem to like it as they come to me to buy the same product cheaper when the warrantee is over and they can do their own changes.

 

[joee12]

Patman. I want to run 10W30, but I am concerned about voiding my warranty by not running 5W30. Al, the funny thing is that the 4.6 Explorer calls for 5W20 -go figure???? -Joe

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by joee12: Patman. I want to run 10W30, but I am concerned about voiding my warranty by not running 5W30.

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Doesn't the manual say 10w30 is acceptable for temps above a certain range? Most cars that say 5w30 preferred will still accept 10w30 according to their owner's manuals (and warranties)

 

[MNgopher]

With the extensive testing Ford did prior to recommending 5w20 in many of their engines, the 4.0l SOHC V6 in the Explorer was one of about three or four engines that Ford determined did not meet acceptable limits for enegine wear using 5w20. Thats why it still has the 5w30 recommendation. Al - that is not correct, as F150's use 5w20 in all engine sizes. CAFE also applies to light trucks, currently the standard is 20.7 mpg. Even the 4.6l in the explorer uses 5w20. While it may be a CAFE issue, Ford not using 5w20 one engine in their light truck line up doesn't mean that all light trucks don't use 5w20. Ford does not print charts in it's manuals anymore recommending different grades for different temps. It is one recommended grade only. The musting v8's do use 5w20, inlcuding in the Cobra versions. I believe the Cobra R, which has a 5.4l V8, uses a different grade though. For all of the hesitation by folks on this board who are supposedly open minded when it comes to oil, folks sure are afraid of 5w20. I still haven't seen an oil analysis that shows bad numbers on 5w20. It's been speced for over two years in F150's, and there has not been a rash of engine failures from users. I still haven't seen a great arguement that says 5w20 is bad. But then I use bad old 5w30 in three of my vehicles, and have used it since 1989... and I have two of them pushing 200,000 miles with still no oil consumption to this day - go figure...

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by MNgopher: For all of the hesitation by folks on this board who are supposedly open minded when it comes to oil, folks sure are afraid of 5w20. I still haven't seen an oil analysis that shows bad numbers on 5w20. It's been speced for over two years in F150's, and there has not been a rash of engine failures from users. I still haven't seen a great arguement that says 5w20 is bad.

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I agree that I've been pretty down on 5w20, even without seeing much data on it yet. However I will say this. Just because there hasn't been a rash of engine failures doesn't mean the 5w20 is not causing more engine wear. Perhaps an engine on 5w20 only now has the potential to go 150k before a rebuild, where with 5w30 or 10w30 the same engine may go 200k or more. It's a slow process (the death of an engine) when you have an oil that allows more engine wear. What I really want to see is someone taking a fully broken in engine and running two 5k intervals with 5w20 and then two 5k intervals with 5w30 or 10w30 to compare the results. And using the same brand of oil too, of course. Is anyone here planning a test like this?

 

[Kernel Potter]

I have a family member that owns a 2001 Mazda Tribute with a 3.0 litre V6, which uses 5w-20. The Tribute is mechanically the same as a Ford Escape. As far as the 5w-20 being so bad; its 100*C viscosity is pretty close to Mobil1's 10w-30 and Ford's minimum specs for 5w-20 has been increased quite a bit over past vehicle manufacturers standards in many areas. So I really don't see an issue to be alarmed about wear until I see some proff in hard data. Sort of like all the Mobil1 SuperSyn bashers. That was pretty ugly. I think one of the benefits of CAFE, is it leaves a strict guideline for not too little and not too much viscosity for most of the conditions encountered by todays vehicles. If there weren't warranty considerations, you could be quite sure there would be a lot of "armchair" engineers out there outguessing the real ones with the thinking that more is always better. Then putting in 40 and 50 weight oils that are eating into MPG, causing more cold start up wear while giving no added high temperature protection. Despite the flaws, I'll take that trade off over a lot of the rest of the world's $4.00+/gal. gasoline prices.

 

[metroplex]

all 01-up Crown Vics, Mustangs, and even gas trucks (the Exploder isn't a E/F-Series) specify 5W-20. My friend bought a 2002 E-150 and it specified the use of 5w-20 w/ its 5.4L SOHC V8.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kernel Potter: I have a family member that owns a 2001 Mazda Tribute with a 3.0 litre V6, which uses 5w-20. The Tribute is mechanically the same as a Ford Escape. As far as the 5w-20 being so bad; its 100*C viscosity is pretty close to Mobil1's 10w-30 and Ford's minimum specs for 5w-20 has been increased quite a bit over past vehicle manufacturers standards in many areas. So I really don't see an issue to be alarmed about wear until I see some proff in hard data. Sort of like all the Mobil1 SuperSyn bashers. That was pretty ugly. I think one of the benefits of CAFE, is it leaves a strict guideline for not too little and not too much viscosity for most of the conditions encountered by todays vehicles. If there weren't warranty considerations, you could be quite sure there would be a lot of "armchair" engineers out there outguessing the real ones with the thinking that more is always better. Then putting in 40 and 50 weight oils that are eating into MPG, causing more cold start up wear while giving no added high temperature protection. Despite the flaws, I'll take that trade off over a lot of the rest of the world's $4.00+/gal. gasoline prices.

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"Automotive Engineering" had an article about the Ford engines about a year ago dealing with the 20 wt oil. Origionally EPA was requiring a test to verify the engine could hold up to 125K miles (I think that was the number) on the 20 wt . oil (their engineers had concerns about durability). Guess what??-that requirement got dropped and Ford was not required to prove the durability. Gee I wonder whose back pocket got padded??

 

[metroplex]

Motorcraft 5W-20 is a synthetic blend. Ford originally used dino 5W-20 but it broke down to a 10-15 weight way too quickly, so they had to use a synthetic blend. The new Toyotas and Hondas are burning oil pretty badly. I heard its due to smaller oil passages and the 5W-20. My vote is to stay with 5W-30/10W-30.

 

[Jay]

The reason Ford's Motorcraft oil is a synthetic blend is because Ford requires a double-length sequence IIIF test to gain their approval. This is a really tough test and lesser quality basestocks just don't make it. Honda requires a similar test on 5w-20's for their approval. Mobil's Drive Clean 5w-20 is all group III basestocks and it has Honda's and Ford's approval. As far as performance goes I was very happy with the factory-fill 5w-20 in my new Acura RSX. I kept it 5,000mi and only used 1/4 qt. An analysis showed it could have gone further. It's posted here. By contrast, my consumption with M1 0w-30 was 3X higher.

 

[HOndaGuy]

im using 5w20 till i find out by several oil analysises that it causes more increased wear in an engine. There also has to be several tests and mainly it has to do with how hard the vehicle was driven. Any vehicle can burn a quart of oil going a fast enough speed like 90+ for a constant time. So until i see results, im still going to use 5w20 for now(although i prolly will use mobil 1 5w30 since it is a thick 5w20 anyway)

 

[Jay]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman: What I really want to see is someone taking a fully broken in engine and running two 5k intervals with 5w20 and then two 5k intervals with 5w30 or 10w30 to compare the results. And using the same brand of oil too, of course. Is anyone here planning a test like this?

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I'm running a similar test now in my RSX. My engine has 14,600 miles and I just installed M1 5w-30. I already have a 7kmi sample on M1 0w-30. I plan on sampling at 7Kmi and then switching to a 0w-20- probably M1. It will take some time, though, to see the results. I'm primarily an around-town driver and don't rack up many miles.

 

[palmerwmd]

quote:

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Originally posted by HOndaGuy: Any vehicle can burn a quart of oil going a fast enough speed like 90+ for a constant time. 5

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I drive 90+ all the time and for extended periouds too. Running a 5w-40. I guess I would feel safe running a 10w-30 if it was one of the thicker ones. But a 5w-20? No way. If these thin oils are no problem, how come the same cars in other countries run thicker grades IAW manufacturer? Fred....

 

[MNgopher]

I agree that it will take time to see some results on high mileage engines with 5w20 to see where we are at. There has got to be a few users out there who are up there by now, I would think. Nice to see some folks are looking to do a little testing on the different oils.