SO what do you guys think of my argument ?

[JohnBrowning]

Do you think that my highly additive laced dino QS 5W30 will perform as well or better then a synthetic? My hypotheis is that in a modern engine design the bulk of the wear reduction comes from the additive package andnot the oils hydrodynamic properties, cold flow or laminar flow at the bearing etc.....The oil is just their to coll the part,, keep them seperated and to hold the additives?

Now I am not calling this a theory because I do not have enough proof yet to makeit such. I do think though that much of what we saw int he past with out of this world synthetic performance was due in large part to the higher additive levels. Their was a time when all your true synthetics had almost double the amount of key additives in them as compared to their more common cheaply made dino brother's. It made sense because their synthetic had better oxidation resistance and could take advantage of the increased additive levels because the increased oxidation resistance allowed for longer drain intervlas.

Well today we have some killer OTC 5W30 oils thnaks in large part to SM and GF3 requirments that are 10X the oils in term of base stocks that we had say 20 years ago in a bottle of 5W30. So if the oils are less volatile and have better oxidation resistance why not give them a beefier additive package more in line with what the old M1 15W50 or Amsoil or Redline has and see what they can do! I am betting that with better additive package you can make them get real close even on extended drains to fair more expensive synthetics.

So since I am really wanting to see what we can get from this. I would love to get some talk going both ways for and against it? ANyone have any of those TBN test strips or know where I can get them at a decent price? I want to do TBN but donot want to spend as much for it as the UOA alone cost if I can help it. I am going to school and again looking for another temp job. Ihavenot had a good job since GM sent my job to Canada and Pakistan.....Int he last few years I have worked for Ford and Chrysler trouple shooting things on a job to job basis. I have sold life insurance for Primerica, I have sold car's and this last season I shovled sugar beets for $9 an hour. The guy driving the tractor around cleaning up small mess's has a PHD. so I did not feel so bad having just an MBA and an Applied Science degree in Aviation Material and Technologies!!! The positive thing is the State is paying for me to go back to college. So if I can test for TBN cheaper then black stone wants for it I would like to go that route.

My QS 5W30 has about double the amount of additives found in regular SM motor oil and it was a proper SM additive package I used not an OTC product. This is a licensed SM additive package not somethingone buys at AutoZone. I normaly do 6 month oil changes but I am thinking about letting this go longer then that because it should have an unholly amount of TBN left after 6 months!LOL

 

[Greggy_D]

What happened to the gig selling Toyotas?

Edit to add: It's good to see you posting here again.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

You have to do a titration 4 TBN. More EP is more chance to slough wear metal in solution and show up on a UOA. Doesnt mean anything AFA actual wear.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I think your logic is sound . Grp II HDEO is proof of this is the improved longevity for diesel engines used in commercial, construction and over the road service with much longer OCI's . I agree that with the cleaner less volatile base oils today..there is little difference. I like strong detergents

 

[BrianWC]

Lol, my brother makes a good living with Primerica. He even resigned his Army commission 2 years before retirement since he was doing so well. He works til 10 pm every night though visiting client after client. His 04 Accord has well north of 300k miles to show for it.

As for the oil...I dunno. I thought the same thing as far as HDEOs. Ran some Tection Extra in my 9-5. It had sheared down to a 30 weight in just 2000 miles. But it still had a good TBN!

 

[webfors]

Be careful with additives. Might have the opposite effect of what you're hoping for

What's your mileage in a 6 or 1 year period?

 

[JohnBrowning]

My millage varies wildly from year to year.It basically depends on what type of work commute I have to make. SO I have never had a consistent millage for more then 1-2 years at a time. The last 3 years have been totally up in the air. Until I lost my job with GM I normaly did 12,000-15,000 a year. When I was working for my self that about doubled and then when that fell through it droped to about half that. So I am waiting for a back ground check and then I will be driving a lot more again and I also have college3-5 days a week depending on the schedule. SO I idea what my milage for this OCI is going to be like!

I have not yet gotten into trouble with additives and I have been doing it for about 6 years now. Their is always a first time though for every thing so their is the possibility I put too much in. I do not think I have ever used 2 onces of this additive before normally I only use one once. We shall see what see.I do know too much ZDDP can pit steel parts so their is a definitive limit to how much you want. Hopefully I did not cross that limit if I did then I will next time to keep it to not more then one once. Trial and error are still the most often used methods for discovery since not every one with a good idea has the math or engineering skills to go with it. In this case I lost the white papers that go with the additive and I am hoping my memory was accurate.

 

[JohnBrowning]

The dealership was working the sales staff against ech other. Having an MBA I quickly noticed some things that where not at all right especially when my boss left his computer screen up with me sitting in his office. Turns out the entire upper management had been skimming a lot of the sales and commissions and lieing tot he staff. On top of that as I quickly started to build a clientell my Boss would send me to run an errand and then give my sale to someone else that had been their longer but what not getting any business. I would get back from running the errand only to find out that a deal I had worked hard on had been handed off to someone else. Then they wanted use to lie to customers out right for instance if the person that came iin was in the military or police or a firefighter we where encouraged to lie to them and tell them that we too had done that years ago right out school etc.......Then their was the all the sneaky manipulative stuff being done behind the scenes by the sales manager tio keep people at each other throats and then their was all the out right lieing and deceptive things they had doing to customers with regards to vehicle that where on sale like regional sales flyer's and such!!!! It was bad it was like working in a reality TV show. Finally I got tired of being pressured to lie and swindle people..........I was building up a huge client tell insanely fast so you would have thought they would have been happy but it was never good enough. The only time they seemed happy was if you managed to sell a vehicle for even higher then full MSRP!!!!LOL

I have done sales in many business's mostly company to company and I know how to make sales. I just cannot treat my clientel like mark's and I refuse to! So I told them I could not work for them if they here not going to be happy with me making sales the way I do and I turned in a letter of resignation and walked out. I almost went over to GM to sell and my friend from college told me that people where quiting left and right because of no works so I did other things. SO far though it has mostly been either seasonal work like shoveling sugar beets for $9 or the occasional job with one of the ex-big three but any more they using their in house engineering resources even if they have no clue what they are doing! I am going to give substitute teaching a try while I am in college.

 

[Big O Dave]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning

Now I am not calling this a theory because I do not have enough proof yet to make it such.


JB, a theory is an idea you come up with, and then you test it under repeatable conditions in order to determine whether or not your theory is correct, or true.

Excellent work, BTW.

 

[mechtech2]

Bearings will be protected by oil way more than additives.
Highly loaded cam surfaces would like additives under certain conditions. Same for gears and chains.
Rings/bores? I'd say oil is the main anti wear agent.
Clean oil is highly regarded for all conditions.

More additives? A little more could help for the long run.

 

[erogers]

You test an hypothesis, not a theory. An hypothesis is an educated guess. A theory is an explanation of things or events based on scientific knowledge that is the result of many observations and experiments. It's part of the scientific method. The words "hypothesis" and "theory" get confused quite often in common conversation. No big deal...just wanted to set the record straight. I just taught this to my biology class the other day, so it's stuck in my mind!