so the DT guys used a torque stick to tighten my

[robertcope]

When mounting my wheels, I use a torque stick that is lower than the torque I'm looking for. For example, my Miata torques to 75ft-lbs, so I use a 70ft-lbs stick. Then I finish by torquing by hand. Seems to work well for me.

(It's a race car, so the wheels are on and off quite a lot more than a normal car's would be.)

robert

 

[javacontour]

So glad I carry a 4 way lug wrench. I can usually put over 100# on each side, pressing down with one arm and pulling up simultaneously with the other. I've needed that on occasion after getting new tires or a rotation or repair.

 

[Eddie]

My local gas station rotated my tires and was using a torque stick. I questioned him as I didn't realize what a torque stick was. He explained and I was skeptical. We got out a torque wrench and we test 4 or 5 lugs and they were within 5 foot/lbs which is probably better then most beam type torques wrenches. I'm sold on them IF they are used correctly and match the vehicle requirements. Ed

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
You're lucky they even try with the torque wrench. Most places still air gun them on at 300 ft lbs.


That's how it is around here. Then it takes a breaker bar and a length of pipe to get them off.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
You're lucky they even try with the torque wrench. Most places still air gun them on at 300 ft lbs.
more like 700. i use a sick 3\8's impact that only does about 50 then i finish with my recently calibrated snapon tq wrench. yes they move when torquing as to not be over torqued.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
How much torque do you think a 190# man can apply, bouncing with all my weight on an OEM lug wrench? I'd guess that I conservatively put twice the spec'd torque, easily.


Depending on the length of the OEM lug wrench, you were probably applying less torque than you realize. Torque is measured in force x distance. In the case of a torque wrench, "force" is your mass acted upon by gravity (aided with muscle if you brace yourself against something) and "distance" is how far away from the fulcrum (socket) you are.

Many OEM lug wrenches are relatively short. Say your wrench is 14" long (1.2'). Say you can also get half of your weight onto the end of the wrench (95 lb). If so, you'd have been applying 114 lb*ft on the socket. If you apply the same amount of weight on a 2' bar, then you've got 195 lb*ft on the socket. You probably couldn't truly get all of your weight on the end of the wrench, even if it felt like it. Half of your weight is probably a reasonable guess, but who knows. Either way, it sounds like they truly were put on by a gorilla.

If it's common that you're NOT the last person to install the lug nuts (so you're sure that they're not over-tightened), then I recommend keeping a long breaker bar or a ratchet and cheater bar in the spare tire well, loaded with the correct socket of course.


Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I couldn't loosen ANY OF THE LUGS, STANDING ON THE OEM LUG WRENCH!!!


You must have missed this part

The OEM lug wrench in question is 11" from tip to centerline of the socket. I stood with my full weight, as far out on the bar as possible, so a good conservative estimate for the lever arm would probably be 10" (though the centerline of my foot was probably, realistically right at the end of the bar.

10in. X 1ft/12in. X 190# = 158.33 ft-lbs

This is the static torque. I was squatting and rising while standing on the OEM lug wrench, increasing the maximum torque by some factor due to my downward momentum and then upward force while rising from the squatted position.

I wouldn't be surprised if I was apply upwards of 200 ft-lbs of torque.

Also, I appreciate your post, but I'm a pretengineer by trade, and while I'm certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed, I at least understand the concept of torque

 

[ram_man]

I never use anything but my gun. But I do so with care. Mine has a 1 2 and 3 option. 1 being the lowest torque. Roughly 120ft lbs. I use that one when doing wheels and can always remove the lug nuts with a tire tool afterwards. It's not about the tools used its about the guy using the tools.

 

[bubbatime]

Torque sticks are good, followed up with a torque wrench even better. I wouldn't be complaining too much. Better than some Forrest Gump type cranking your lugs down to 225 ft lbs.

This is a proper way to do things at a professional tire shop.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: WhyMe
So i went out with 3 torque wrenches i have, 1 dial and 2 clickers. the spec for sub is 75#. i sent the clickers are 75 and tried the first wheel, the drivers front. all of them clicked at 75. i bumped it to 85 and it clicked. 90 and it clicked. went to 95 and they stated rotating. doing the rest of the car, i found that most of them were in the 90 range. a few of them were looser.

i loosened them all and torqued them to spec 75#. this is with a stock alloy wheel.

DT has always given me good service and products, but i have never trusted anyone to torque my lugs. i learned this in the 80"s with my Honda and warped rotors. this was of course before i got a torque wrench.



Anything around 100 +/- isn't too bad, i wouldn't worry about a 90 torque on a 75 spec... much better than what happens at most places.

 

[Rand]

torque sticks are calibrated to a certain strength inpact wrench.

for example my set were for a 350ft/lb.

so when using them with my 290 its slightly lower.

I grab the 70lb torque stick

and its about 60-65.

I'd imagine this works the other way as well.

so if you use one with a 700ft/lb gun it would be way too tight.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: WhyMe
So i went out with 3 torque wrenches i have, 1 dial and 2 clickers. the spec for sub is 75#. i sent the clickers are 75 and tried the first wheel, the drivers front. all of them clicked at 75. i bumped it to 85 and it clicked. 90 and it clicked. went to 95 and they stated rotating. doing the rest of the car, i found that most of them were in the 90 range. a few of them were looser.

i loosened them all and torqued them to spec 75#. this is with a stock alloy wheel.

DT has always given me good service and products, but i have never trusted anyone to torque my lugs. i learned this in the 80"s with my Honda and warped rotors. this was of course before i got a torque wrench.



Anything around 100 +/- isn't too bad, i wouldn't worry about a 90 torque on a 75 spec... much better than what happens at most places.


Agreed. Using this rather unscientific method to try and confirm the torque they were set at, I'd say they were right in the ballpark. I would be very nervous using 75 ft/lbs, even if that is what the manufacturer called for. That's barely snug! Most cars call for 100.

 

[gathermewool]

Public service announcement:

The unit is foot-pounds, ft-lbs, ft-#, lever arm (X) force in pounds.

Lb/ft and ft/lb is incorrect.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
You're lucky they even try with the torque wrench. Most places still air gun them on at 300 ft lbs.


No kidding. I had a flat on my Magnum...wound up calling AAA because I could not get the lugs off with a 4-way! The guy AAA sent was a huge black dude (6'4", easily 300+lbs, 3' shoulders) who looked like he was playing hooky from the Patriots defensive line...and HE needed a breaker bar with a pipe on it.

The scary part: the gorilla with the impact gun was the dealer.

 

[AboutTires]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
You can do it without a torque stick if you "know your gun".

The variety of effort and care involved varies from person to person though.


No, no, no, and furthermore, no. An impact wrench puts out full torque on every hammer stroke. Feathering the trigger will not substantially limit the torque, nor does it matter all that much how long the trigger is held. If torque is limited by a stick, torque will be limited on every stroke. The reason to not hold the trigger too long with torque sticks is because the hammer impact can cause some slight overtorquing, and because it stresses the stick.

I've had to prove this empirically to my tire techs who thought they could just control their gun. I know how widespread this belief is, but it's just not true.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Actually, it is...because I know someone who does it. My uncle can tighten lugs with an impact...and he gets the torque right EVERY TIME! I have checked them with a torque wrench many times, & they were dead-on every time.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: WhyMe
i loosened them all and torqued them to spec 75#. this is with a stock alloy wheel.

This is the proper way to check or retorque wheel lugs.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: WhyMe
So i went out with 3 torque wrenches i have, 1 dial and 2 clickers. the spec for sub is 75#. i sent the clickers are 75 and tried the first wheel, the drivers front. all of them clicked at 75. i bumped it to 85 and it clicked. 90 and it clicked. went to 95 and they stated rotating. doing the rest of the car, i found that most of them were in the 90 range. a few of them were looser.

i loosened them all and torqued them to spec 75#. this is with a stock alloy wheel.

DT has always given me good service and products, but i have never trusted anyone to torque my lugs. i learned this in the 80"s with my Honda and warped rotors. this was of course before i got a torque wrench.


I hope every realizes that checking the torque on a lug nut results in a higher value than when torquing it. I'm guessing that those 90 ft-lbs values were 75 when torqued the first time.

The proof would have been to come back a day later and measure them again. If you got 90, that would be proof.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: WhyMe
So i went out with 3 torque wrenches i have, 1 dial and 2 clickers. the spec for sub is 75#. i sent the clickers are 75 and tried the first wheel, the drivers front. all of them clicked at 75. i bumped it to 85 and it clicked. 90 and it clicked. went to 95 and they stated rotating. doing the rest of the car, i found that most of them were in the 90 range. a few of them were looser.

i loosened them all and torqued them to spec 75#. this is with a stock alloy wheel.

DT has always given me good service and products, but i have never trusted anyone to torque my lugs. i learned this in the 80"s with my Honda and warped rotors. this was of course before i got a torque wrench.


Due to the physics of steel fasteners and the difference between static and dynamic friction coefficient, always expect to break free lug nuts at a higher value than they were torqued down. I find on freshly done work it runs about 25-30% higher, if it sits a few month closer to 50%.

I'd say if your 75 rated broke at 90-95, they did a pretty good job.

If you doubt what I say, let it sit for a few months and then break them free and see what you measure.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: AboutTires

No, no, no, and furthermore, no. An impact wrench puts out full torque on every hammer stroke. Feathering the trigger will not substantially limit the torque, nor does it matter all that much how long the trigger is held. /quote]


Not quite right. An impact gun starts "hammering" at a much lower torque than its ultimate torque potential. Each "hammer" stroke continues to rotate the fastener, but only a little bit with each hammer, so the equivalent torque applied to the fastener increases steadily and surprisingly linearly with the time the trigger is held after the initial "hammering" starts. Without a torque stick, though, it rate of rise is very fast and you can be over-torqued in a split second. With a torque stick, the extra torsional "spring" in between the impact driver and the fastener slows the rate of rotation. It doesn't actually create a hard and fast limit on the avaialble torque. You CAN over-torque even with a stick, but you have to hold the trigger many seconds longer than you should.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Actually, it is...because I know someone who does it. My uncle can tighten lugs with an impact...and he gets the torque right EVERY TIME! I have checked them with a torque wrench many times, & they were dead-on every time.


I was beginning to think I was the only guy in the world who feathers the trigger on his old impact. It definitely is possible to reduce the torque with just trigger action, it just takes a bit of 'touch' and some experience...