Sneak-peek @ Auto-RX PLUS cleaning after 1,400 mi

[Artem]

Well, some folks aren't going to be too happy with the results posted in this thread (while others may be ) but the truth and the results must be posted as I'm an honest guy and tell it like I see it. Here are the results of a 1,400 miles run over 4 days with Auto-RX Plus along side Shell Rotella T6 5w40 that was recommend for me to use. These results technically only tell half the story (more like 1/4th actually) as A-RX recommends a 3,000 mile cleaning cycle followed by a 3,000 rinse cycle but that's besides the point. Before using A-RX+ I was told by the A-RX team that the new formula is better then ever and that I can expect to see results in as little as 1,500 miles and so a 1,500 mile cleaning phase was in order, followed by a 1,500 mile rinse. So I'm 100 miles short, sue me (although I can see the A-RX defense crew going - that I'm not following the directions written on the bottle but in reality, I'm following the directions given to me by a "certain someone" ) why yes, I have them right here. Here's the AFTER pictures of the front cylinder head of my 1998 Toyota Camry V6 with the 1MZ-FE engine that has been oh so good to me for the last 15 years and 234,000 miles (purchased NEW in 1998). And now the BEFORE / AFTER shots of one particular area where previous cleaning attempts with the older version of Auto-RX and Kreen showed "some" improvements. BEFORE Auto-RX PLUS AFTER 1,400 miles with A-RX+ 100 points to whoever can spot the difference... Ah screw it, I'll do it. Now I have a few more dozen shots of various areas with build up that I use to compare BEFORE / AFTER results but I won't clog this thread with those boring pics. I will however post the results of a little carb cleaner spray test that some members asked me to try. BEFORE a squirt of carb cleaner AFTER a squirt of carb cleaner and some light rubbing with a screw driver tip as the carb cleaner alone just wasn't doing much to this particular area. Aaaaaand a few more areas just for kicks and giggles. All those areas were touched with the tip of my screw driver and with almost ZERO pressure, the goo came right off. This was done just to show that it's not solid, caked on varnish. It's very soft and comes right off. Now of course the AFTER pics of the screw driver cleaning will be used as the BEFORE pics in any further product testing. I'm now being suggested to dump the current fill, replace the oil with PP and add TWO bottles of Auto-RX Plus as one bottle doesn't seem to have what it takes to really tackle this build up. Thoughts and or comments?

 

[simple_gifts]

I am curious whether the patent # from the new and old formula are the same?

 

[Artem]

I'll check and tell you right now...

 

[Artem]

Yep! same numbers.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: Artem

Thoughts and or comments?

Areas that are splashed with oil occasionally don't get cleaned by chemicals in the oil. The fact that some of the products you've used are in fact effective (at times) doing things like cleaning piston rings, stopping seal leaks, generically improving engine smoothness, etc, suggests that pressure and friction are as important to the cleaning process as the chemicals themselves. That you're so easily able to remove the deposits with your screwdriver is further proof. This is why pictures of valve covers and oil pans are of limited usefulness in determining the value of the products. Now where's Mystic to jeff

 

[Pablo]

Just keep at it. It will be clean. Right after it's really clean the car will t-boned in a parking lot. Seriously I would have done the 3K and the magic rinse.

Originally Posted By: greenjp

Areas that are splashed with oil occasionally don't get cleaned by chemicals in the oil. The fact that some of the products you've used are in fact effective (at times) doing things like cleaning piston rings, stopping seal leaks, generically improving engine smoothness, etc, suggests that pressure and friction are as important to the cleaning process as the chemicals themselves. That you're so easily able to remove the deposits with your screwdriver is further proof.

Truth.

 

[Trav]

Artem let me be the first to offer an apology. I though you may have been in the tank for this as so many in the past have been and still are but your obviously a straight up guy. Not because it didn't work but mostly because you showed where you sprayed the carb cleaner, i knew then this was on the level. I sincerely apologize for being sceptical but that's what this company brings out in people after so many years of shenanigans. Back to your results.. If the carb cleaner didn't shift it without help from a screwdriver even though it was only light rubbing then its probably going to be very difficult. I have a theory but its just that a theory. May be the solvents are flashing off on this head way to quickly and not doing anything at all. Its also possible that an oil with good cleaning ability and low NOAK will do the job. If in fact high head temps are the issue as it is with another engine which happens to be a Honda then low NOAK may help to keep deposits to a minimum. If that oil also has good cleaning abilities then it may be able to clean this up. Would you consider just running PU for 1 OCI alone to see if in fact it does anything.

 

[Artem]

I forgot to post this pic of the products used in this cleaning attempt.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Trav

Artem let me be the first to offer an apology. I though you may have been in the tank for this as so many in the past have been and still are but your obviously a straight up guy.

Apology accepted.

Originally Posted By: Trav

Would you consider just running PU for 1 OCI alone to see if in fact it does anything.

I was actually planning to use this next... Shall I leave out the MMO and try just PU for all the Pennzoil lovers / believers?

 

[JamesBond]

No dump-in product will clean the top of the valve cover, especially not in 4 DAYS. 15 years and 200+k miles of burnt on deposits and you expect a magic cleaner would work in 4 days? How much does this stuff cost? Your engine looks really clean already, I would change the oil back to whatever you were using before and keep driving. That is, unless you're trying to damage the engine in which case, have fun.

 

[Mystic]

Can you show me greenjp where I said to take pictures of valve covers and oil pans? I said pictures of the internals of an engine would be useful. I hope you are able to read with good comprehension.

 

[bepperb]

As someone who is really sick of people buying a new Toyota because they are "reliable" and then selling them at 60,000 miles because they are bored of them (which to be honest is a little easier in most Toyotas), or they need tires and brakes or whatever... I salute you. I'm sorry the cleaning is disappointing to you but FWIW my father had a 1996 he kept until 286,000 miles and he was not overly maintaining the car. Original ATF, probably 10,000 mile oil changes. I did see a can or two of seafoam on a shelf, but I was afraid to ask. Really the rest of the car fell apart around the drivetrain and as much as he wanted 300,000 a coil spring broke and the fasteners were just too rusty to assume everything would go back together, to say nothing of having someone try to align it. Hopefully in FL you can get a bit more out of it. And thanks for the entertainment. When you're really ready to trash it you have to give a few quarts of ATF a try and do a little BITOG mythbusters.

 

[Artem]

These products are said to be engine safe. I'm not pouring in kerosene along with the oil and going on the highway for a road trip. A recent UOA showed the engine is just fine. No excessive wear from using the oh so powerful Kreen at full dosage for 2,500 miles. I'm not worried about Auto-RX+ causing any damage. The engine is running better then ever, and my butt dyno is telling me that the block is benefiting from all these cleaning products.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Artem

Shall I leave out the MMO and try just PU for all the Pennzoil lovers / believers?

If you would but not for that reason. My thoughts are if there asre very high temps on that head then anything with a solvent base may in fact reduce the oils cleaning abilities. They do claim PU is head and shoulders above Platinum and its one of the first GTL oil on the market. Its incredibly low NOAK might be increased with the addition of MMO. Yes i would like how this oil performed right out of the bottle with nothing, it might be a huge surprise (or not).

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: bepperb

As someone who is really sick of people buying a new Toyota because they are "reliable" and then selling them at 60,000 miles because they are bored of them (which to be honest is a little easier in most Toyotas), or they need tires and brakes or whatever... I salute you. I'm sorry the cleaning is disappointing to you but FWIW my father had a 1996 he kept until 286,000 miles and he was not overly maintaining the car. Original ATF, probably 10,000 mile oil changes. I did see a can or two of seafoam on a shelf, but I was afraid to ask. Really the rest of the car fell apart around the drivetrain and as much as he wanted 300,000 a coil spring broke and the fasteners were just too rusty to assume everything would go back together, to say nothing of having someone try to align it. Hopefully in FL you can get a bit more out of it. And thanks for the entertainment. When you're really ready to trash it you have to give a few quarts of ATF a try and do a little BITOG mythbusters.

Hahaha! I actually hope someone will pull the block and use it for another 300,000 miles after I'm done with the car @ 300k, which is my goal as even though the car is in great condition and the powertrain runs flawless bouncing off the revlimiter almost everyday without any complaining, I'm tired of the car as a whole and long for that new car smell. My goal was to pay off this car in 5 years and then enjoy 5 years of no payments and move on to another ride but the Camry has been so good to us and with so many memories and stories in it, it's been hard to let go. Perhaps someone else can try the ATF on an engine that is dying. The way I see it, this puppy has just broken in not too long ago and after 15 years of service, just needs a shower in some good engine cleaner to prepare for the next 15 years...

 

[Mystic]

I want to apologize to you also Artem. I thought you might be in the tank also. Now I know you are on the straight and level. I would say that 1,400 miles and only four days is a pretty short time to try the Auto-RX. Although it looks like the Auto-RX would not have done much anyway. But I am an honest guy and I will try to be 100% fair towards Auto-RX. A 3000 mile test over a period of a few months might have been more effective. But you drive a lot in a short time don't you? This engine does have a lot of miles on it. And this may be one of those problem Toyota engines that Toyota came out with years ago. But the engine has lasted for a lot of miles. It may be hard for any motor oil, Mobil 1 (which you used for a while in this engine), Pennzoil Ultra, or Valvoline conventional, to keep this engine clean. My guess is if you want to keep running this car you will have to physically clean the engine as much as possible. And check for any problems that might exist. Check the PVC valve and check to see if any coolant might be getting into the oil. After that perhaps it would be possible to get more cooling for this engine. And I would do short OCIs with motor oil. I would also say, in all fairness, that testing Auto-RX, MMO, or Kreen in this engine may not be really fair. It might seriously be better to test those products in an engine that has fewer problems. Still, I would like to see what the Pennzoil Ultra might be able to do.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Trav

Originally Posted By: Artem

Shall I leave out the MMO and try just PU for all the Pennzoil lovers / believers?

If you would but not for that reason. My thoughts are if there asre very high temps on that head then anything with a solvent base may in fact reduce the oils cleaning abilities. They do claim PU is head and shoulders above Platinum and its one of the first GTL oil on the market. Its incredibly low NOAK might be increased with the addition of MMO. Yes i would like how this oil performed right out of the bottle with nothing, it might be a huge surprise (or not).

I have an 800 mile road trip coming up in an hour or so, as soon as I'm done changing out the A-RX+, which is draining as I type this (400 miles of highway cruising one way, parked overnight and then 400 miles back on Saturday) I'll pour in just PU right now and will pop the valve cover on Sunday / Monday to see if anything changed. I can always add MMO later, right? It's settled then! PU is going in...

 

[JamesBond]

Originally Posted By: Artem

These products are said to be engine safe. I'm not pouring in kerosene along with the oil and going on the highway for a road trip. A recent UOA showed the engine is just fine. No excessive wear from using the oh so powerful Kreen at full dosage for 2,500 miles. I'm not worried about Auto-RX+ causing any damage. The engine is running better then ever, and my butt dyno is telling me that the block is benefiting from all these cleaning products.

So they're said to be engine safe and not showing a problem in the UOA but they also don't seem to be doing much cleaning to the underside of the valve cover, in an already clean engine. Nothing but cleaning by hand will clean that valve cover. Your butt dyno isn't feeling a cleaner block, just a lighter wallet. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'm an admitted cheapskate that hates to see people spend money needlessly.

 

[Mystic]

Thanks for doing all this testing and work Artem. You are one of the few. Hopefully the PU can make some difference and it would be interesting to find out. But I am doubtful it will make that much difference. This engine is pretty dirty and I don't know if any cleaner or motor oil would really make that much difference. In the end I think you will have to physically clean that engine if you want to keep the car. And then maybe use PU with short OCIs. But the car is still running good, right? Heck, drive it until it quits.

 

[wag123]

IMHO I don't see any reason for this 234,000 mile Toyota engine needing ANY kind of cleaning. I don't really see any sludge buildup of any consequence. It looks surprisingly good in there, especially in view of the fact that this engine is a known sludge monster. If I were you I would just leave it alone and continue doing what you have been doing for the last 234,000 miles.