All of the Pennzoil jugs at my Canadian tire are sn+. Even Pennzoil Conventional is sn+... I considered it... but I went with the Platinum d1g2 5w30. Much better for cold specs. 10600 mrv at -35c vs 23000.
SN+ oils
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by SlavaB
Sn plus is less calcium
I want sub1000 Calcium oils, not 12-1400 that some SNs advertise.
Prior to d1G2 and SN+, many of these oils possessed an excess of 2000ppm Calcium. After switching to d1G2 and/or SN+ some of these oils decreased the amount to roughly what you're trying to avoid...1200-1400ppm.
Along with that change, Magnesium and Molybdenum were increased. Off the top, i believe M1 meets your personal requirement.
Originally Posted by SlavaB
Sn plus is less calcium
I want sub1000 Calcium oils, not 12-1400 that some SNs advertise.
Prior to d1G2 and SN+, many of these oils possessed an excess of 2000ppm Calcium. After switching to d1G2 and/or SN+ some of these oils decreased the amount to roughly what you're trying to avoid...1200-1400ppm.
Along with that change, Magnesium and Molybdenum were increased. Off the top, i believe M1 meets your personal requirement.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I haven't seen a VOA comparison of the two in order to be able to tell.
Originally Posted by pbm
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Some particular products, like the Mobil 1 0W40 FS (Full SAPS??) A3/B4, aren't going to be SN+ because they are not formulated to limit LSPI. I'd guess most or all A3/B4 oils would fall in that boat.
Conversely, XOM has advertised that many other Mobil 1 grades have had SN+ compliant formulations since 2010...I know that Mobil 1 5W30 had a reduced calcium, moderate magnesium detergent composition back in 2013 going by the PQIA.
My guess is that anything that meets the dexos1 Gen 2 standard would also meet SN+, but I don't know that for sure.
I have read that Mobil 1 met dexosG2 long before the spec. existed (lower calcium etc...) I have asked this before but haven't gotten an answer....does anybody know if Mobil 1 Annual Protection 5w20 (dexos) also meets the newer G2 spec? I picked up several qts. at the AZ 'clearance'....
Compare the voas on pqia. The base oil wouldn't have needed an improvement so if the additives are very similar I'd say yes.
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Some particular products, like the Mobil 1 0W40 FS (Full SAPS??) A3/B4, aren't going to be SN+ because they are not formulated to limit LSPI. I'd guess most or all A3/B4 oils would fall in that boat.
Conversely, XOM has advertised that many other Mobil 1 grades have had SN+ compliant formulations since 2010...I know that Mobil 1 5W30 had a reduced calcium, moderate magnesium detergent composition back in 2013 going by the PQIA.
My guess is that anything that meets the dexos1 Gen 2 standard would also meet SN+, but I don't know that for sure.
I have read that Mobil 1 met dexosG2 long before the spec. existed (lower calcium etc...) I have asked this before but haven't gotten an answer....does anybody know if Mobil 1 Annual Protection 5w20 (dexos) also meets the newer G2 spec? I picked up several qts. at the AZ 'clearance'....
Compare the voas on pqia. The base oil wouldn't have needed an improvement so if the additives are very similar I'd say yes.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4843166/Dexos1_Gen2_SN_vs_Dexos1_Gen_2
https://www.counterman.com/shell-de...meet-api-sn-plus-motor-oil-requirements/
I think and oil that is not rated dexos1 Gen 2 can still be rated SN Plus. I know the formulated Motircraft meets SN Plus, but not dexos1 Gen2.
https://www.counterman.com/shell-de...meet-api-sn-plus-motor-oil-requirements/
I think and oil that is not rated dexos1 Gen 2 can still be rated SN Plus. I know the formulated Motircraft meets SN Plus, but not dexos1 Gen2.
No connection mentioned between dexos1 Gen2 and SN Plus.
https://www.api.org/products-and-se...assifications/latest-oil-classifications
https://www.api.org/products-and-se...assifications/latest-oil-classifications
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4843166/Dexos1_Gen2_SN_vs_Dexos1_Gen_2
https://www.counterman.com/shell-de...meet-api-sn-plus-motor-oil-requirements/
I think and oil that is not rated dexos1 Gen 2 can still be rated SN Plus. I know the formulated Motircraft meets SN Plus, but not dexos1 Gen2.
Yes, that is true. Since even most "Conventionals" are SN+ but do not meet d1G2.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4843166/Dexos1_Gen2_SN_vs_Dexos1_Gen_2
https://www.counterman.com/shell-de...meet-api-sn-plus-motor-oil-requirements/
I think and oil that is not rated dexos1 Gen 2 can still be rated SN Plus. I know the formulated Motircraft meets SN Plus, but not dexos1 Gen2.
Yes, that is true. Since even most "Conventionals" are SN+ but do not meet d1G2.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I still find bottles and jugs which say d1G2 but still not SN+ too. This IMO is old stock in the midst of the transition because the only thing SN+ affects is LSPI whereas d1G2 does as well plus other parameters. So once an oil meets d1G2, it automatically meets SN+. The converse is not so.
Originally Posted by wemay
I still find bottles and jugs which say d1G2 but still not SN+ too. This IMO is old stock in the midst of the transition because the only thing SN+ affects is LSPI whereas d1G2 does as well plus other parameters. So once an oil meets d1G2, it automatically meets SN+. The converse is not so.
I'm not so sure about the statement in red. Searching on the 'net I find no indication that dexos1 Gen2 automatically means it meets SN+. They are two separate ratings. SN+ is an API rating, while dexos1 Gen2 is GM oil specification.
I still find bottles and jugs which say d1G2 but still not SN+ too. This IMO is old stock in the midst of the transition because the only thing SN+ affects is LSPI whereas d1G2 does as well plus other parameters. So once an oil meets d1G2, it automatically meets SN+. The converse is not so.
I'm not so sure about the statement in red. Searching on the 'net I find no indication that dexos1 Gen2 automatically means it meets SN+. They are two separate ratings. SN+ is an API rating, while dexos1 Gen2 is GM oil specification.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by wemay
I still find bottles and jugs which say d1G2 but still not SN+ too. This IMO is old stock in the midst of the transition because the only thing SN+ affects is LSPI whereas d1G2 does as well plus other parameters. So once an oil meets d1G2, it automatically meets SN+. The converse is not so.
I'm not so sure about the statement in red. Searching on the 'net I find no indication that dexos1 Gen2 automatically means it meets SN+. They are two separate ratings. SN+ is an API rating, while dexos1 Gen2 is GM oil specification.
The SN+ LSPI test is performed in a Ford Ecoboost (2.0l) while d1G2 obviously uses a GM engine (believe also a 2.0l DIT)...on that basis alone, they can't be exactly the same test.
Originally Posted by wemay
I still find bottles and jugs which say d1G2 but still not SN+ too. This IMO is old stock in the midst of the transition because the only thing SN+ affects is LSPI whereas d1G2 does as well plus other parameters. So once an oil meets d1G2, it automatically meets SN+. The converse is not so.
I'm not so sure about the statement in red. Searching on the 'net I find no indication that dexos1 Gen2 automatically means it meets SN+. They are two separate ratings. SN+ is an API rating, while dexos1 Gen2 is GM oil specification.
The SN+ LSPI test is performed in a Ford Ecoboost (2.0l) while d1G2 obviously uses a GM engine (believe also a 2.0l DIT)...on that basis alone, they can't be exactly the same test.
Found this old thread by wemay ... good info.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4769609/1
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4769609/1
What is with this low speed pre ignition business. DI cars have been COMMON since 2006. I've owned two starting in 2006, both well past 100k. Never once heard of this being a problem from 2006-1015. Certainly haven't experience it. And IF it is a problem why would OIL be the solution? Design/tune the darn engine to not do that. Don't they put millions into designing engines and tuning? If oil is going to be the difference between pre-ignition and no pre-ignition I don't want that engine.
Originally Posted by stanlee
What is with this low speed pre ignition business. DI cars have been COMMON since 2006. I've owned two starting in 2006, both well past 100k. Never once heard of this being a problem from 2006-1015. Certainly haven't experience it. And IF it is a problem why would OIL be the solution? Design/tune the darn engine to not do that. Don't they put millions into designing engines and tuning? If oil is going to be the difference between pre-ignition and no pre-ignition I don't want that engine.
Don't buy a DIT engine, then!
What is with this low speed pre ignition business. DI cars have been COMMON since 2006. I've owned two starting in 2006, both well past 100k. Never once heard of this being a problem from 2006-1015. Certainly haven't experience it. And IF it is a problem why would OIL be the solution? Design/tune the darn engine to not do that. Don't they put millions into designing engines and tuning? If oil is going to be the difference between pre-ignition and no pre-ignition I don't want that engine.
Don't buy a DIT engine, then!
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by stanlee
What is with this low speed pre ignition business. DI cars have been COMMON since 2006. I've owned two starting in 2006, both well past 100k. Never once heard of this being a problem from 2006-1015. Certainly haven't experience it. And IF it is a problem why would OIL be the solution? Design/tune the darn engine to not do that. Don't they put millions into designing engines and tuning? If oil is going to be the difference between pre-ignition and no pre-ignition I don't want that engine.
Don't buy a DIT engine, then!
I've already owned two (2007 VW GTI FSI 2.0L and 2007 BMW 335i N54 twin turbo DI).....and none of this was ever heard of being an issue. The only DI issues like all DI issues were carbon build up on the intake valves that don't see fuel. OEMs have solved that by adding port injection. If you know what pre-ignition is there is no way oil formulation should be the fix for it.
Originally Posted by stanlee
What is with this low speed pre ignition business. DI cars have been COMMON since 2006. I've owned two starting in 2006, both well past 100k. Never once heard of this being a problem from 2006-1015. Certainly haven't experience it. And IF it is a problem why would OIL be the solution? Design/tune the darn engine to not do that. Don't they put millions into designing engines and tuning? If oil is going to be the difference between pre-ignition and no pre-ignition I don't want that engine.
Don't buy a DIT engine, then!
I've already owned two (2007 VW GTI FSI 2.0L and 2007 BMW 335i N54 twin turbo DI).....and none of this was ever heard of being an issue. The only DI issues like all DI issues were carbon build up on the intake valves that don't see fuel. OEMs have solved that by adding port injection. If you know what pre-ignition is there is no way oil formulation should be the fix for it.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by wemay
I still find bottles and jugs which say d1G2 but still not SN+ too. This IMO is old stock in the midst of the transition because the only thing SN+ affects is LSPI whereas d1G2 does as well plus other parameters. So once an oil meets d1G2, it automatically meets SN+. The converse is not so.
I'm not so sure about the statement in red. Searching on the 'net I find no indication that dexos1 Gen2 automatically means it meets SN+. They are two separate ratings. SN+ is an API rating, while dexos1 Gen2 is GM oil specification.
The SN+ LSPI test is performed in a Ford Ecoboost (2.0l) while d1G2 obviously uses a GM engine (believe also a 2.0l DIT)...on that basis alone, they can't be exactly the same test.
You guys are right. Technology, one does not beget the other. I should have worded my explanation differently. If one is looking for LSPI protection and the bottle only has one of these designations present, you are set. If you're looking for the other benefits d1G2 brings, SN+ won't work.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by wemay
I still find bottles and jugs which say d1G2 but still not SN+ too. This IMO is old stock in the midst of the transition because the only thing SN+ affects is LSPI whereas d1G2 does as well plus other parameters. So once an oil meets d1G2, it automatically meets SN+. The converse is not so.
I'm not so sure about the statement in red. Searching on the 'net I find no indication that dexos1 Gen2 automatically means it meets SN+. They are two separate ratings. SN+ is an API rating, while dexos1 Gen2 is GM oil specification.
The SN+ LSPI test is performed in a Ford Ecoboost (2.0l) while d1G2 obviously uses a GM engine (believe also a 2.0l DIT)...on that basis alone, they can't be exactly the same test.
You guys are right. Technology, one does not beget the other. I should have worded my explanation differently. If one is looking for LSPI protection and the bottle only has one of these designations present, you are set. If you're looking for the other benefits d1G2 brings, SN+ won't work.
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