Sludged VW 1.8t, oil pump gummed up.

[TSoA]

Just wanted to pass along the experience of my cousin, since so many VW/Audi 1.8t users have questions about oil. My cousin is lifetime VW owner who probally only changed her oil once or twice a year in her older I-4 water-cooled cars. Synthetic is a never. She got a 98 Passat new, with a higher maintainance 1.8t. Her husband is a highly-qualified Navy pilot, so I tried not to nag them about maintaince. I was surprised 2 months ago when she snapped a timing belt with 150,000 miles. On the older cars, no problem, you just line the engine back up and install a new belt. On the 1.8t, it cost $1,500 because of valve damage. Back to my point of the oil pump, it failed with an oil pressure light over 4000 rpm. MY mechanic says, "bad oil and bad mechanic". He is right, she probally went whatever miles with some old SH-ina-drum from her idiot local meechanic. He should have made her use synth! I slipped them a jug of Rotella last summer, who knows if it ever made it in. What a shame, now she needs an oil pump and will need a turbo soon, but she SAVED $3 quart! (rolls eyes) PS the local mechanic should have not let her go over 90,000 miles without a timing belt either. [ February 09, 2004, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]

 

[therion]

Sorry to hear about that story!! I have a 1.8T in my Audi A4. Mine is chipped to 215HP and 240ft/lbs of torque. And when i pop the hood after driving a while **** is it HOT!!!. I use Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 in the motor, this is a very hot running engine. The turbo glows red hot too after hard driving. Yes the timing belt wears the more wot, and abrupt accelerations you do.

 

[Jeffrey Behr]

therion, is the turbo both water- and oil-cooled? My Cayenne's are (thank you Porsche), but they SHOULD be at $89,000!

 

[haley10]

Most unfortunate. Got to keep those timing belts changed exactly as recommended on any car. At the very best you get left stranded and have to get a tow truck. Shame on this so called mechanic for not using a "turbo approved" engine oil. In the end we are responsible for our own cars just like our taxes. Ask Willie Nelson. You just can't put 100% faith in any professional. At the best case it can cost you big $$$. You have to take responsibility for your own maintenance regardless of who does it.

 

[moribundman]

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I was surprised 2 months ago when she snapped a timing belt with 150,000 miles.

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You said she had a '98. The TB needs to be changed at least every 4 years, so she was way overdue. The rubber just gets brittle over time. I would also replace the TB if it's newer but has more than 70k miles on it. She got got away cheap at $1,500 damage.

 

[therion]

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Originally posted by Jeffrey Behr: therion, is the turbo both water- and oil-cooled? My Cayenne's are (thank you Porsche), but they SHOULD be at $89,000!

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Yes it is water & oil cooled.

 

[Quattro Pete]

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Originally posted by therion: Yes it is water & oil cooled.

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Yup, although there is no after-run cooling pump like on the TT or the S4, so immediate engine shut-off after a spirited run is a major no-no. As for the topic of timing belts on the 1.8T, the TB, TB tensioner, and water pump should be changed every 60K miles because they are known to fail prematurely. The fact that the TB on this '98 Passat survived 150K miles is a miracle, unless it's not her original TB/tensioner.

 

[Tyrolkid]

$1,500 is a steal for replacing the bent valves on a 1.8T.....she might have gotten lucky and only bent intake valves, as the inconel exhaust valves are approx. $80/ea(x8) 150k on the OE timing belt is a miracle. They usually show up broken in my shop between 60 and 90k. Tell her to count her blessings! -Mike P www.tyrolsport.com

 

[TSoA]

Yep. I KNOW she used dino-in-a-drum. Synthetic...too expensive. [ February 08, 2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: TSoA ]

 

[TC]

Just curious...does the owner's manual call for syn? Or just API SJ of any type? My sister's Saab 9000 Turbo, with about 150K miles on it using whatever dino-in-a-drum her independent shop uses, is still quite clean under the valve cover. Not sure I'd be so quick to blame the oil...was she also extending her oil change intervals in the '98 Passat as with her prior VDubs..?

 

[turbochem]

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MY mechanic says, "bad oil and bad mechanic".

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What a great guy!! Didn't even see the engine....has no idea what oils she uses....but knows exactly what went wrong!!

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Shame on this so called mechanic for not using a "turbo approved" engine oil.

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Huh?? Many dino oils are "turbo approved." What in the world are you guys talking about?

 

[Jeffrey Behr]

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What a great guy!! Didn't even see the engine....has no idea what oils she uses....but knows exactly what went wrong!! [/QB]

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From what I read, the mechanic didn't say he knew exactly what went wrong, but one of those goddamned 'RUBBER' timing belts did indeed break, didn't it?!?! Sounds to me as if it's YOU who are jumping to conclusions and/or being too critical.

 

[TheNauseator]

There is nothing worse than a newer car and old school mechanic....and ignorant car owner, I guess.

 

[heyjay]

When I was at the University of Utah I had a neat summer programming project for the DOD. Hanging around all those ex Marine, Navy, Air Force, and Army folks, I also learned comical new arrangements to bad swear words and some VERY handy acronyms. RTFM: Read The F****** Manual It's that little book in the glove box or console that nobody on planet earth bothers to read. At least some basic advice on OCI's, viscosities, etc. If you're really into oil, you join BITOG. Too bad about the motor, maybe they'll listen to you next time. You know, unless it "costs too much" right?? Jeffrey: yeah I'm leery of timing belts too. Unlike timing chains, they give NO warning before they fail. Just like a fan belt, they rot with age and should be replaced after "x" years or "x" miles. Jerry

 

[Spector]

Quote: "MY mechanic says, "bad oil and bad mechanic". He is right, she probally went whatever miles with some old SH-ina-drum from her idiot local meechanic. He should have made her use synth!" You really don't know this for a fact though, it is an assumption on the part of your mechanic etc. At her mielage it is very possible the pump just went bad. No way to prove the actual cause of the failure!

 

[turbochem]

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From what I read, the mechanic didn't say he knew exactly what went wrong

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Oh really?

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MY mechanic says, "bad oil and bad mechanic".

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but one of those goddamned 'RUBBER' timing belts did indeed break, didn't it?!?!

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Sure, but I doubt it had anything to do with the brand/type of oil she was using. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm trying to figure out this whole "turbo approved" thing. Many dinos are "turbo approved." The OP seems to think only synthetics are allowed in turbos. Just trying to figure out the reasoning.

 

[moribundman]

I mean, come on, how could the engine be so gummed up that the oil pump caused enough drag in the oil pump to put so much strain on the TB, which I presume is driven by the TB on this motor, to make it snap? If the oil was the culprit, I'd expect the turbo to seize way before the TB breaks! Now, we all know TSOA adores his mechanic, but I say an overly old TB was the reason and cause for it to fail, but not the oil. I'm not sure it was the oil pressure light that came on when the TB failed, rather the CEL. She didn't report a buzzer, from how I read TSOA's report. At that RPM, in an Audi, a buzzer will come on in addition to the oil pressure light, if oil pressure falls below the critical level.

 

[TSoA]

Two seperate issues. One is the TB, which only indicates the level of disregard my cousin had for a relatively hi-maintainance car. The oil pump is what I and my mechanic percieve as an oil-related problem. After I told him about the oil pump and what I am rather sure was neglectfull oil selection and change interval, he quickly correleted the gummed-up pump and crap oil. Afterall, he says..."I've done a million of them". Why someone thinks he, for some reason, doesn't know what he is talking about, that person has issues of their own.

 

[Quattro Pete]

TSoA, I'm sure you've seen a few reports of prematurely failed oil pumps on AudiWorld (mainly on the B5 forum). Some of those 1.8Ts had as little as 30K miles and ran synthetic oil. These OPs were replaced under warranty, of course, but my point is that there could be another reason why her OP failed, not necessarily the oil.

 

[TSoA]

Interesting. The service history of this car is pretty well known, bad. I will look into it further, but the low pressure syndrome at 160k is definately attributeable to wear and gumming.