sludge under valve cover?

Messages
1,011
Location
Montgomery, Alabama
I pulled the valve cover off my 22RE toyota 4cylinder last weekend to replace the gasket and got my first look inside since 50k miles when I previously changed the gasket. Everything looked bright and shiny with a golden patina on most of the surfaces. the engine still looks new with no apparent wear on the cam lobes. I have been running synthetic since the 1st change and amsoil with a bypass since 13k miles. It is now at 110k. Yes, I took pictures but had to settle for using my new palm Zire 71 camera as I did not have my fuji with me. My question is. Could those of you who have been using a non synthetic for over 100k miles please tell me what it looked like under the valve cover or covers. I am especially interested in newer cars which might be more prone to sludging. Not being a mechanic, I don't have access to the insides of a large sample of cars with which to compare. As an aside, I did talk to a mechanic pumping gas at a local gas station and he himself ran Mobil synthetics front to rear on his own truck. He told me that the engines that were using Penzoil had a lot of sludge in them. Any comments from any mechanics out there?
 

Ed

Messages
135
Location
Southern California
Your engine looks pretty clean from here. I bought a 79 Toyota pickup new (20R engine) The first 20000 miles I used Quaker state 30 weight(changed every 2 to 3000 miles) I then switched to castrol gtx half 10w30 and half 20w50. (the owners manual specified 20w40 and that was rare even then) At 100000 miles I did an experiment to check the condition of the engine. I changed the oil and used 5w30 including quart of marvel mystery oil. This was in the summer and the weather was hot. I figured that with this thinned oil muxture any propensity for using oil would be agravated. The results were encouraging. The idle speed came up a tad, the gas mileage went up about a half a mile per gallon and I noticed no increase in consumption (which was always about a half a quart in 2000 miles. I now had to decide weather to stick with lighter oil or go back to what obviously had been doing a good job. I chose to go back to the Half 20w50/10w30. at around 120000 miles I switched to castrol syntec blend with the same 10w30/20w50 mixture.This resulted in that "fresh oil change feeling" lasting longer. I change that every 4000 miles and that works out just fine. Currently I have 166000 miles on it and the insides look about the same as yours. I don't think its so much the oil as it is the 20R engine and its derivatives is a bulletproof design. I had to change the front oil seal a few years back and had the oil pump out and disassembled (easy to do on that engine) The oil pump is much larger than you would normally associate with an engine of that size needs so its no wonder they last so long.
 
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3,593
Location
Outside smalltown, IL
I had an '80 Corolla with the 3TC engine and always ran Mobil-1. Before I sold it I had the valve cover off for the last time at about 140K miles and it looked about like yours, maybe a bit dirtier.
 
Messages
961
Location
Tacoma ,WA
I have a 95 Nissan Altima with 160000 miles on it..Have been running Mobile 1 with a Gulf Coast Bypass on it since 84000 miles and 2 1/2 years ( I have a long commute) I took my valve cover off the other day ...just for the fun of it...and i would say my eingine is as cleen as yours...no visible sludge ...just a petina of varnish...my cam and cam followers have no visible wear marks...I may get 300000 of of this one.... [HAIL 2 U!]
 
Messages
848
Location
Ohio
That is one clean engine, a long time ago I used Kendall motor oil, at 50,000 I pulled the valve covers and had some gummy crap 1/2 inch thick, yours is looking good.
 

wulimaster

Thread starter
Messages
1,011
Location
Montgomery, Alabama
quote:
Originally posted by Spector: Interesting to see the varnish coating in some places. Guess I didn't expect that with Mobil 1.
The pictures were from an engine that was running Amsoil 10w30 for most of its life. 25k oil changes, I have left the oil in up to 4 years at a time. I only changed it because it cost only a little more than the $20 for analysis to just dump the oil at 25k.
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
The 22RE is the most durable engine Toyota has ever built in my opion. Your engine is definately clean. They tend to varnish on the top of valve cover baffle and the non load bearing/friction surfaces with a yellow varnish that is thin hard and tacky if 3000 mile OCI and convetional oil are used. This engine does not have a sludge problem and you really have to work to get them to sludge. The main weakness in an OEM application of this engine is thrust washer/bearing . These begin to fail at around 200,000 miles if the engine has seen any hard towing or off roading. The rear main can also wear a grove in the crank causeing a slight leak at around the same time. Pablo comented that he has seen issues with their front main seal as well. I have not seen this but different enviroments make all the difference.THe chain and tensioner should normaly be changed at 120,000 miles. What makes this so impressive is the fact that 25,000 mile oil changes have been used. While I have seen alot of 22RE engines run on synthetic that looked this good none of them were useing 25,000 oil changes. Impressive!! Thanks for shareing the photo's!!!
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
Ed, The oil consuption problem was fixed in late 1986 or early 1987 I think. The problem was that the oil control ring was doing to good of a job. The fixed this by switching the oil control ring material to heat treated stainless steel and reduceing it's tension. It was normal for them to use 1/2 a quart ever 3000 miles if you had an automatic and 3/4-1 quart if you had a manual and down shifted alot prior to this fix. After this fix it droped to 1/4-1/2 a quart per 3000-5000 miles. I actualy never noticed any consuption at all once I made the switch to synthetics in 1988!
 

wulimaster

Thread starter
Messages
1,011
Location
Montgomery, Alabama
quote:
Originally posted by Spector: Interesting to see the varnish coating in some places. Guess I didn't expect that with Mobil 1.
The dark brown stains are from the round rubber grommets that leached into the valve cover where the studs protrude through the valve cover. They were original equipment and probably should have been replaced at 50k when I changed out the 1st valve cover gasket. They were 11 years old.
 
Messages
1,533
Location
Ephraim
quote:
Originally posted by wulimaster: -snip-o- My question is. Could those of you who have been using a non synthetic for over 100k miles please tell me what it looked like under the valve cover or covers. I am especially interested in newer cars which might be more prone to sludging. Not being a mechanic, I don't have access to the insides of a large sample of cars with which to compare. A-snipo-
I have not had the film developed yet, and I have about 1/2 a roll to go on it, but I replaced my Valve-cover gasket I think around 330K for the first time, and mine looked as good or better using a dino, :-) In fact you can see writing, Why do they do this and what type of pen do they use? Cheers!
 
Messages
1,533
Location
Ephraim
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnBrowning: [QB] -snip- What makes this so impressive is the fact that 25,000 mile oil changes have been used. While I have seen alot of 22RE engines run on synthetic that looked this good none of them were useing 25,000 oil changes. Impressive!! I had one drain over 60K One over 50K One over 40K Several over 30K Several over 20K the rest 8-16 K except the first 30K where I did usually 2-3-4K changes. Guess those Toyota engines are built well. -- I have a 1997, TACO The main weakness in an OEM application of this engine is thrust washer/bearing What is this? and how to protect?? The rear main can also wear a grove in the crank causeing a slight leak at around the same time. My rear main always wants to leak around 120-140K just like clockwork, do you know of an UPgrade to the seal? THe chain and tensioner should normaly be changed at 120,000 miles. Got 376868 On mine now, will it start to make a noise or something?
 
Messages
175
Location
Ooooooooklahoma
quote:
THe chain and tensioner should normaly be changed at 120,000 miles. Got 376868 On mine now, will it start to make a noise or something?
The plastic chain guides become brittle and fall apart. Watch for chunks of plastic in your used oil. The chain begins rubbing the aluminum housing cover. As I understand, it makes a grinding noise that can't be ignored. If allowed to continue it will grind a hole into a water jacket and dump your coolant into the oil pan. Very impressive to be approaching 400K miles on the original.
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
Robbie the easiest fix for the rear main area is to install a mallable copper sleeve called a crank saver. This sleeve slides over the end of the crank and then you install a new rear seal. THis is a lot cheaper then a new crank or getting the groove filled and polished. P.S. Anyone needing a new crank for their 22Re engine can get a cast replacement from Scant Cranks!
 
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