Sludge Advice

[i_hate_autofraud]

I used to have an old hi mileage V8 with tons of blowby and sludge.

I let the engine idle til hot and poured 2 cups (500mL) straight camping fuel Kerosene into the engine oil and let it idle for another 20 minutes, taping the gas once in a while for a few extra revs.

Then did an oil and filter change, tons of dirt/lumpy sludge came out. Eyeballed the rocker cover thru the oil filler and saw a cleaner engine.

The new oil stayed cleaner months longer then before. Don't over use engine oil flushes since you'll dry-out the crank seals.

If you don't have a garage and the wife won't let you do oil changes at home, go to your garage, park outside while the engine idles and dump in the kerosene and keep idling, then let the garage change it. They charge $10 for an oil flush that has 15 cents of kerosene and won't allow enough idling time for it to work.

One way or another, you can get it done!

 

[sleddriver]

I like Trav's idea. He works on cars up in your area so is familiar with the weather conditions and obviously has seen many motors. His approach makes sense: A longer-is-better pan/sump soak with a stiff cleaner. Followed by a brushing up and a rinse + a few very short OCI's. Also makes sense.

I've used BG109 in the sled a few times with excellent results. You may consider using it 5kmi AFTER doing Travs-treatment on a periodic basis when it's oil-change-time. Also, be sure to drain your oil cooler as well. Keep us posted.

BTW: I drove a 1983 SAAB 900T 5-spd, for 14yrs, 256,000mi. Great car. No sludge problems in those motors at all. What a shame to hear this was not the case in later years. Geesh.....

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Saab's are unique to this. I have one too. The CAT is right under/next to the pan so they heat-soak the oil and build coke. That black in the corner of the pan in the foto is the cooked oil. The screen will plug and the oil pressure goes down slowly until the engine dies.

Sounds like a good place for a heat shield.

 

[BrocLuno]

There is a heat shield. The issue comes from idling in stop and go traffic. Heat always rises and in this case a lot goes into the pan.

If you never idle in traffic, it's not really a problem as the road draft breeze carries the heat away from the pan.

That's why a lot of late model Saab drivers have removed the drivers side plastic aero shield under the motor. To let more air circulate. Mine's been off for years. You will never see the hit in fuel mileage.

I'm sure the engineers in Trollhaten did not foresee folks stuck for hours in stop & go traffic in LA or San Jose with the AC on in 100*F weather. It's just not like that in Sweden, or most of northern Europe.

The design is nice in that exhaust flow is smooth and it scavenges well. Nothing cracks or breaks loose. No rattles, nada - except the heat issue ...

 

[sleddriver]

Never seen a picture. How very odd though to have the cat so close to the oil pan as to be an issue. You say there IS a HS, however it sounds most ineffective! Needs extending to adequately protect the pan from radiant heat.

 

[Ducked]

If its worrying you, I'd say you should probably drop the pan.

If you aren't "allowed" to, I'd say you should probably have a row about that, but that is of course a tactical decision for you.

I'm not married, which may not be a coincidence.

I've read somewhere that there is a custom oil pan available for these SAABs which has a removable inspection plate allowing direct examination and cleaning of the oil pickup strainer. Probably prohibitively expensive, but it might be worth finding out for the future, assuming there is one.

 

[Ducked]

Modified oil pan. Allegedly 250 USD

Overkill? Fitting a stable door after the horse has been shot? Dunno

http://www.saablink.net/forum/general-9-5-posts-information/14906.htm

 

[wally21]

Thanks for the comments/advice, everyone.

To answer some questions, I do change my own oil. (my wife will allow that

) Generally, I use M1 or Castrol 0w-40. The prices at Walmart are hard to beat. On occasion, I've also used PP euro 5w-40, Motul, and Amsoil. I've heard that the Saab crowd likes rotella 5w-40, but I've never used it. I've just been a bit unsure about using a diesel oil in a gas engine. It does seem that these engines like 5w-40 oil, but the 0w-40 viscosity oils seem to be some of the most recommended oils on BITOG, especially for their cleaning power.

I have read a lot about these engines and the oil issues on Saab forums. That's where I read about how to drop and clean the pan and was scared off by the time commitment and some of the logistics. I'm sure I could do it, but my situation just doesn't work for it right now.

Thanks for the info, BrocLuno. I hadn't read about the oil cooking issue being related to the pan's proximity to the CAT. Mostly, I thought it was the pcv system design, but maybe these things are associated. The CAT heats the oil and the original pcv system wasn't able to handle the heat and gasses adequately. I have heard that the pcv system components become less effective as the hoses degrade. Maybe my system is old enough that I need to replace some components.

I do have a good place that I take my car to in Wilmington, DE, Sports Car Service. The owner, Bill, is great. He collects Saabs and knows them inside and out. I'll probably have them do an oil pressure check and go from there.

Thanks again, everyone. I'll try to post follow-up info.

 

[benjy]

beside the possible cleaning i would suggest real synthetic oil, preferably Ester based-think Redline!!! beside the superior cleaning of ester based oils they tolerate more heat without breakdown. my purchased new 01 jetta 1.8T also known for sludge issues went happily to 200,000 miles until i traded it, 10,000 OCI with the then PAO + Ester amsoil 10W30 , who knows what they blend today!! at 5,000 miles i switched to the amsoil, i had free include oil changes for 24,000 or 2 yrs i think, bertolet vw would not put in my amsoil so the same day after the change i drained + saved it for girlfriends malibu then put in my amsoil. they later on revised their oil recommendations to synthetic after issues started to pile up. most all of todays "synthetics" are the severely hydrocracked CRUDE flavor, surely better than conventional but still short of real group IV + V oils usually blended together.

 

[wally21]

. I think you may get a little push back on here by suggesting that M1 and Castrol aren't "real" synthetics or at least aren't every bit as good as grp IV+V only oils.

I have gotten the ester/PAO bug before, hence my experimentation with Motul and Amsoil, but inevitably, I start reading posts on here and begin to feel that I'm throwing my money away. If I use M1 and change the oil every 3k miles or so, am I really going to cook the oil enough to cause this problem? Is an oil like Redline so superior that it's worth the added cost? Would you argue that if I used Redline, I could stretch my oci longer and recoup some of the added cost?

I should add that part of the reason for my short oci's is that I do live in a city, and my car sees a lot of stop and go traffic and not too many open highway miles. It's the perfect storm for the sludge/coke problems that BrocLuno mentioned earlier.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: benjy
beside the possible cleaning i would suggest real synthetic oil, preferably Ester based-think Redline!!! beside the superior cleaning of ester based oils they tolerate more heat without breakdown.

OP is not the PO.
This is an inherited issue as previously stated.

 

[ET16]

Originally Posted By: wally21
Originally Posted By: ET16
My Saab indie shop does a BG oil treatment/flush service and then drops the pan to take care of any debris that might block the pickup.

I have an 05 9-5 Arc. It was using a little more oil than I liked, so I ran a bottle of Auto-RX that I had. It seemed to work.


Do you mind me asking how much they charge for that?



I don't remember specifically, but I think at least a couple of hundred.