Size of an oil vendor and its budget on R&D

[yagciogullari]

excuse my ignorance but i would like to pose this question:

how come a smaller sized (e.g. liqui moly ($675.65M turnover), motul ($368.88M turnover) etc.) engine oil vendor can produce better oils than giants like shell, mobil, castrol etc.? for instance shell spent $962M just on R&D in 2019 (not exclusively for engine oil but hell of a lot budget on R&D)

on the internet (forums and social media) people can't get enough of those smaller sized vendors' products. in turkey, motul and liqui moly have become insanely popular (ravenol would be the same i wager. too bad its distributor sucks). they are expensive and almost marketed as magic pixie dust engine oil

 

[JustN89]

By what metric are they better than Shell, ExxonMobil, Castrol, etc?

 

[zfasts03]

I think it is mainly due to the majors (Pennzoil, Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, etc.) building oil to a price point that a normal person will buy. Available at local stores and the masses will accept the price and even follow sales and rebates.

Only the "car" people and some gurus like us will spend crazy money on a quart of oil. That makes up a very small percent of all oil sales. I am guessing it is something like 90% want to do "normal maintenance" with normal off the shelf commonly available parts and fluids, dealer, independent, self maintenance or quick lube. 9% majorly neglect their vehicle and the "crazy" 1% like us on BITOG are obsessed with something that is out of the ordinary.

Even though I use boutique products, I know it is a little crazy, but it is my hobby. Good conversation with my car buddies.

 

[zfasts03]

So basically the giants choose not to produce a product for the 1%. However may have high end products for race teams, with formulas not found at your local store.

 

[wpod]

Can we actually prove the Boutique oil is really better?

 

[OVERKILL]

Short answer is that they don't.

They, well, Motul at least, produces a premium line of oils (300V) that the majors don't bother to make, but it, like AMSOIL's SS line, has no formal approvals. Mobil makes dedicated race oils with no formal approvals as well, but doesn't market them towards Joe Average and their daily driver. One of the most popular lubricants in the 24hr races is just plain Jane M1 0w-40. Motul's regular lubes aren't demonstrably better than anything XOM, SOPUS or BP makes.

Liqui Moly seems to float on the "Made in Germany" labelling while producing what appear to be just your average HC (non-PAO) lubricants. At least Ravenol has majority PAO offerings, which is their appeal to me.

 

[4WD]

What’s not working … those who believe paying more for lubricants is the way to go should be happy campers …

I’m definitely not blocking you from that aisle …

 

[4WD]

Short answer is that they don't.

They, well, Motul at least, produces a premium line of oils (300V) that the majors don't bother to make, but it, like AMSOIL's SS line, has no formal approvals. Mobil makes dedicated race oils with no formal approvals as well, but doesn't market them towards Joe Average and their daily driver. One of the most popular lubricants in the 24hr races is just plain Jane M1 0w-40. Motul's regular lubes aren't demonstrably better than anything XOM, SOPUS or BP makes.

Liqui Moly seems to float on the "Made in Germany" labelling while producing what appear to be just your average HC (non-PAO) lubricants. At least Ravenol has majority PAO offerings, which is their appeal to me.

Not to mention majors having large industrial lubricant divisions … jet engine/turbine lubricants etc …

 

[madeej11]

The"giants" you mentioned are very capable of producing boutique oil quality very easily. Do they need or want to? no. If enough market were there then of course they would.

 

[zfasts03]

Can we actually prove the Boutique oil is really better?

Definitely better for conversation with car guys.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

how come a smaller sized (e.g. liqui moly ($675.65M turnover), motul ($368.88M turnover) etc.) engine oil vendor can produce better oils than giants like shell, mobil, castrol etc.? for instance shell spent $962M just on R&D in 2019 (not exclusively for engine oil but hell of a lot budget on R&D)

I agree with you on that. Thats why i use shell aka penzoil in all my vehicles.