Sienna Trans. Jump

[ericthepig]

Quick background -

'98 Sienna. Running M1 ATF for many years now. Couple months ago put in 3 qts Schaeffers Synth ATF (which I know is relatively thin).

Everything was fine (except the trans has a slight buzz noise often just before shifting - doing this for the past year).

Last wkend had a new starter put in (at dealership). Got the van back, and now it "jumps" when shifting. That is, when it shifts (eg) from 2nd to 3rd - it feels like I've been bumped from behind. VERY noticible/obvious. This started immediately after having the starter put in.

Took it to the dealership this a.m. - they looked at it and said "we didn't do it" - said it was possible engine mounts or ? I would think engine mounts would go slowly, not in one day after the van is worked on (?)

Any ideas?

I'm wondering if the thinner ATF along with the computer making adjustment for whatever they did with starter - perhaps the computer is a bit lost. I'm thinking about putting dino ATF back in (several change & fills at one time). (?)

 

[PT1]

Did they disconnect the battery when they did the starter? If so the ECM may need a reflash. Since the dealer is in "defense mode" take it to another dealer for a diagnostic. Don't tell them about the starter unless they are stumped.

 

[robd]

I have been having a similar issue with a 2006 Sienna. See my post on Sienna burnt Fluid. I get a thump from what appears to be 3rd or 4th gear (this is the 5 speed trans that was produced on 2004 and later models). Sienna now has 72000 miles on it and the thump is getting progressively worse.

 

[ericthepig]

Thanks for the input! Brooding on what to do next - may take it to a known (reputable) trans. shop. If I do, I'll let you know what they say.

Currently I'm driving it like a standard - I let off the gas right when I know it's about to shift, and then gas it right after the shift - this cuts down on the audible and physical THUMP that occurs. Thus, perhaps, less stress on the trans.

BTW, when I was buying the Schaeffer ATF at the local Sch. dist. ctr, the rep. (an old and long time Sch. rep) - stated that Schaeffer Synth ATF is significantly lower visc than other ATFs. He said some folks worry about this, but they now have it in 1000's of trans. w/ no problems. But it gives me just a bit of pause given my current issue. But it's only 3 qts in the 9 qt trans.

 

[PT1]

Now would not be a good time to switch fluids since if your trans fails you won't know if it was the fluid.

 

[lexus114]

sounds like you need an ecm re-flash.That old turbo 350 shifting with your foot stuff is probably not best for the U151F.

 

[unDummy]

Do NOT drive it like a manual.

Disconnect your battery overnight, and then drive normally to allow it to learn. Don't forget to check your ATF level.

Something might've been bumped or disconnected during the starter change. Have someone competently go over all wiring, grounds, sensors, connectors, and linkages.

Schaeffers ATF is not thinner and its visc is not even worth mentioning.

I've replaced several Toyota mounts "that looked good". 10+years old and you probably have one that needs to be replaced.

That 'buzz' is now a failure and the tranny is limping home. Sorry, but the starter swap sounds like a COINCIDENCE!!!

 

[ericthepig]

dark clouds gathering...

So I guess I'm taking it to the trans shop.

Question - I'm not real big on dropping $$ for a new trans in this old van. Anybody have thoughts on the risk/reward of hunting one down at a salvage yard and having it put in.

(?)

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
sounds like you need an ecm re-flash.That old turbo 350 shifting with your foot stuff is probably not best for the U151F.


I`m sorry i see your van is a 1998.That is probably a U140 transmission then.

 

[ericthepig]

BTW - I take encouragement in this - the service lady at the dealership (ie, the go-between between me and the mysterious mech) - she said if the trans was about to blow, then the computer would light up the chk engine light.

So I figure I'm good to go. :|

 

[JohnBrowning]

Well first thing I would do is drain the trans and refill. I know you only get about 4 quarts out but that might be enough. Install Fresh M1 ATF. You could also try Lucas Transmission treatment it will thicken the fluid. So if it is due to viscosity of the Schaffers and you add Lucas and it fix's it then we know what the problem was. The Lucas stuff would work almost instantly if it is a viscosity difference issue and not something else!

I always put a little bottle of Lucas in when I put a used,new or rebuilt automatic in a car. A lot of local transmission shops do this which is where I got the idea. I figure if they are going to put it in one of their rebuilt transmissions as a matter of routine it cannot be too bad!

I have never used Schaffer's Synthetic ATF and am not a big fan of Schaffer's in Toyota's. I used to like their M 131 though good stuff and their Kleen Burn!

I have found that most things on a healthy transmission can be fixed either by thining the fluid or thickening it. The other area is cleaning it never hurts to clean a transmission if it is miss behaving. THe trick though is to go in baby steps never do anything drastic with an automatic!

When I have a choice i normally find I like thicker fluid over thinner in an Automatic and just the opposite in a manual transmission!Please note I am not talking drastically either.....For instance M1 ATF is thicker then GM DexVI and I am sure that I will continue to prefer it but cost is an issue and Dex IV is just too much cheaper not to try when so many other's have used it in their Toyota's trucks and cars with no issue at all. It is leaps and bounds better then Toyota's T-IV or WS those are some of the worst fluids I have seen developed by an OEM!

On the other hand most manual transmissions really do not need a 70W90 gear lube and work better and wear the same or less with MTL's in them. THeir are exceptions but not many.

So try the Lucas you can buy it at Grocery Store's truck stops, parts stores Walmart etc.....I find it helps to let the stuff sit in the sink in super hot water so it pours more nicely as it is thick stuff.The bottle is not that large so use it all. The engine needs to be running when you add it and the transmission in nuetral or park! Then drive it and see how it does.

 

[chad8]

i have owned a 1998 and 2000 sienna. both vans transmissions were good until I sold them both at over 135000 miles. The 2000 had a glitch like you described. It would hard shift between 2nd and 3rd. I had the fluid exchanged ,but used b-g trans flush before hand and put b-g trans conditioner after. No more hard shift.ran perfect until i sold it 5000 miles later. yours sounds more severe than mine but the trans could be dirty internally.
If not:
A used trans is a good bet for you. They are very well built at least from my experience .
Never buy a rebuilt Japanese transmission . Most of the cases are out of tolerance and fail in pretty short order.

 

[ericthepig]

John and Chad, Thanks for the info. I was already considering the Lucas - I figured "why not" - before taking it to a trans shop. First I'm going to do the unDummy thing - disconnect battery overnite - then if no change, go to the Lucas - then if no change I'll have the decision of - "do I wait for the engine light to come on" - you know - maybe this thing will just bump on along for two more years. But we make our long trips in this van (w/ three young kids) and the wife is already starting to chime in if you know what I mean.

Will update the results of each step as I go.

 

[caravanmike]

how many miles on the sienna?

 

[ericthepig]

Originally Posted By: caravanmike
how many miles on the sienna?


About 163k miles. Bought it at 62k (in late 2001 I think) - immediately did an M1 ATF drain/fill at that time, and have done perhaps five drain/fills with M1 since.

I read (on BITOG) folks that have one anecdotal data pt (ie, "I did this and then this happened to my car" - and then they make decisions on that - ie "I'll never do that again"). And I scoff at that - but now that it's my car, I can feel their pain. Ie, this Sienna trans has had top shelf Synth in it - and now it's going south.

 

[unDummy]

Unless you understand and know the 'cause' of your issue, then you can't single out the fluid.

You can't blame the fluid for failed electronics: speed sensor, temp sensor, throttle position, or any solenoid. What buzzed?

You can't blame the fluid for owner or shop abuse/negligence. You sure there wasn't a immature 'employee' pulling hole shots making sure the 'starter' works?

I also wouldn't call 5 drain/refills over 163k miles and over a decade as exceptional PM.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: ericthepig
BTW - I take encouragement in this - the service lady at the dealership (ie, the go-between between me and the mysterious mech) - she said if the trans was about to blow, then the computer would light up the chk engine light.

So I figure I'm good to go. :|


I wouldnt necessarily believe that one.

 

[ericthepig]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: ericthepig
BTW - I take encouragement in this - the service lady at the dealership (ie, the go-between between me and the mysterious mech) - she said if the trans was about to blow, then the computer would light up the chk engine light.

So I figure I'm good to go. :|


I wouldnt necessarily believe that one.

Yeah, I wrote that one with some sarcasm.

Meanwhile, tonite the battery gets disconnected. If no chg, then in the next few days the Lucas gets dropped in.

BTW, my starter going down (3 wks ago) was an interesting experience. I had noticed the key and the key hole getting very hot on medium trips over the last several months (not sure if that was related) - like, can't hold your finger against the key hole - hot!. Then I turn the key that particular day, and there's this screaming noise - kind've like the normal starter sound, but way louder (freak the neighbors out noise level) - I turn the key to off - still screaming - I pull the key out - still screaming - I repeat the above several times - still going. I start to get out to disconnect the battery, but give it one more turn - the van starts and all is well. The dealer took a full wk to diagnose the problem because they couldn't get it to repeat the issue - mech would start it thru-out the day (they weren't sure if it was ignition or starter - I thought it would be ignition). Finally, it did it and apparently made an impression on the mech. It supposedly was the starter (hopefully they are correct).

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Hmmm...my dad's Nissan van has shifted hard for a long time. Recently got a flashing o/d light on startup (indicating something is up with the trans). Recently started seeping/leaking fluid too. I guess that's what happens when cars get old. It's almost 10 years old. Hope it lasts until he has a job again to fix it.

Are you sure it's not the mounts though? My dad's van was experiencing wheel hop when going from a stop. I think he recently had the mounts changed and now it drives smoother. Have to see for myself next time I go home.

Good luck finding a solution.

 

[caravanmike]

Originally Posted By: ericthepig
Originally Posted By: caravanmike
how many miles on the sienna?


About 163k miles. - and now it's going south.
i would not call it going south yet! i would try the addaptive reset like was suggested, but i don't think letting it sit overnight will do it? don't you have to discharge the capacitors by touch the positive and negative cables together WHILE DISCONNECTED FROM THE BATTERY?

and then if that doesn't work maybe try getting the schaeffers fluid out of the trans to rule that out or in as the problem.

also what somebody said early about the technician "testing" the starter with a couple of burn outs may not be to far off???? i know i would have been tempted at the right age! who knows? mike