Short trips are hard on the car. Lengthen trips?

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: max88
Agree with all of above. However that did not address my question: should I drive a bit longer to make it "less hard" on average, but overall not worthwhile?

No.

The answer is not to start driving more. The answer is to change your oil more often, as per the severe service. And if you think the battery is not getting charged fully (a valid concern with very short trips and frequent starts), then put it on a battery maintainer/charger once a week.

 

[gman2304]

It seems as if you're asking 'should I take the long way to my destination 2 miles away so my engine will reach it's optimal operating temp'?

 

[fdcg27]

In terms of getting everything up to working temperature, I would imagine that you must go places on weekends, where the car can get a longer run time.
Surely the car sees use beyond the weekday commute?
I agree with all of those who've said that driving more miles with no purpose other than to get everything up to operating temperature is wasteful.

 

[barkingspider]

My commit to the metrolink station is 2 miles from my house. Mon - Fri, I drive to the metrolink, park, take train to work, train back and drive back home 2 miles. I can't ride a bike because I live at the top of a hill. I do this in my beater 95 Prizm. On the weekends, I do take it on the freeway, home depot, visit parents, beach, etc so it reaches normal op temps. I have zero battery problems. No oil consumption syn 5or 10w30 in there. There is no need to take ur car on the longer route to work. Just drive it as u need it.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: max88
Often heard that short trips are hard on the car, and long trips especially at highway speeds are easy.

My car is mostly city driven, with 4 x 2mile trips daily, this fits into the short trip category and can be considered severe service. Hypothetically the trips can be made "less hard", or easy, by driving extra 5miles, or even better, taking it to the highway for extra 50miles. By now we should see the flaw in the logic.

I am trying to answer these questions:
- Is it worthwhile to lengthen the trip to get it to optimal operating condition?
- What's the sweet spot?

Battery will be more fully charged and can last longer. What other components are better off?
- Battery: better
- Starter: no change
- Engine oil, other fluids: maybe
- Alternator: worse, more wear
- Brake: worse, more wear
- Tire: worse, more wear
- Gas: worse, more consumption
- Insurance: worse, higher chance of accident
- Time: worse, more time
- Environment: worse, more pollution
- Other people: worse, more congestion
- ?


I see where you are trying to go with this, but my question is why? I mean, you need to drive somewhere you get in and go, you dont worry about how its going to wear the car?

Here if this helps you. My Folks have a 2001 Lexus IS300 that has averaged 7k miles a year since it was new in 2001. My Mom has driven mainly city and once in a blue moon she takes it on a trip.

After 13 yrs the car has been in the shop one time for a gasket in the gas tank that failed.

So??? How I see it, take care of the car best you can, dont worry about what is wearing, and if it wears you replace it.

To modify your whole day around if its better for the car or not? Seems kinda weird. Even to me. haha


Jeff

 

[JAG]

Changing oil at a lower mileage is much cheaper than lengthening trips just to make the oil last longer in terms of mileage.

 

[expat]

{quote}
It is the winter months that we need the car the most, and of course it is hardest on the car. Granted it's parked underground, cold starting has never been a problem, since new. [/quote]



Sounds like you need a Beater!

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: max88
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
...[snip]

Then you don't have to change your habits. Its not worth it. Nothing else on your car cares about short trips. Your transmission actually likes it because its cooler.


This is what I thought. Adding more distance is not worth it.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Best option. Trade the car in on an electric vehicle.
If that's not going to happen the main point to understand is that short trips are much more of an issue in the winter months than during the hottest days of summer. So don't bother trying to change your driving behavour now but during the winter the key is getting the oil up to temperature every time the engine is started.
So with that in mind what I do is avoid driving at all on certain days particularly the coldest and snowyist, but when I must drive I also take run as many errands as possible but I don't think driving just for the he sake of driving makes any sence.

You haven't said what car yo have but if a daily very short commute is unavoidable in winter I'd likely run a 0W-20 oil like TGMO and change it at 6 months intervals.


Electric is not an option, either too expensive or range is too short for occasional out of town trips. Hybrid has its own drawback, mainly total cost of ownership, given how little we drive.

It is the winter months that we need the car the most, and of course it is hardest on the car. Granted it's parked underground, cold starting has never been a problem, since new.


It's not about cold starts being a problem but rather mitigating
a less than idea situation and choosing the most suitable lubricant is part of that.
The 0W-20 grade has been back spec'd for your model year Civic as an option, and since it is lighter on startup at all temp's it's particularly the best oil choice for your application.
And the best 0W-20 value in Canada is The Mobil made Toyota 0W-20 @ $5.65/L.

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: max88
2009 Civic DX-G auto, with oil life monitor. 51,000KM (31,000 miles) Planned to keep car for at least 5 more years.



It's driven more than the 4 x 2mile daily trips. It has longer trips, and occasionally highway trips. I am trying to establish a baseline, and see is there is alternative or addition that can improve it.


This is the key point...driving a longer sustained highway run, say once a week, is likely enough to clean off any deposits made from the short daily runs...

 

[max88]

Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: max88

It is the winter months that we need the car the most, and of course it is hardest on the car. Granted it's parked underground, cold starting has never been a problem, since new.




Sounds like you need a Beater!


I beg to differ. A car is transportation, must be reliable especially in the winter. A beater, by the sound of it, would be less than reliable.

 

[max88]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


It's not about cold starts being a problem but rather mitigating
a less than idea situation and choosing the most suitable lubricant is part of that.
The 0W-20 grade has been back spec'd for your model year Civic as an option, and since it is lighter on startup at all temp's it's particularly the best oil choice for your application.
And the best 0W-20 value in Canada is The Mobil made Toyota 0W-20 @ $5.65/L.


It's good to know 0W-20 is an option, and suites better for my application.

 

[max88]

We have occasional long trips (20+KM one way), putting the car in the "less hard" conditions. There is really very little to do to improve baseline.

Since engine oil is the #1 topic here, I would like to ask about longevity of engine oil. Under which set of operating parameters will the oil last longest (in terms of time) and still protects the engine? Ignore gas, tire, brake, the environment, other people.

1. Car sits in garage. Never gets ignited. (zero utilization)
2. Car sits in garage. Gets ignited, then turned off. Twice a day. (zero utilization)
3. Start engine, drive onto the street, turn off engine. Wait 1 hour, then start engine, drive back to the garage and turned off (zero utilization).
Now lets get some real work done. All drive one way X miles, have a coffee for 1 hour, then drive X miles back.
4. X=2 miles city
5. X=10 miles city
6. X=10 miles city + 50 miles highway

Baseline: the oil reaches the end of life after 1 year on the dot under #4. How long does the oil last under other sets of parameters? Under a year, over a year? Why?

This is for the sake of discussion so please refrain from flaming.

 

[Bamaro]

A few thoughts:
First, the sweet spot is the point where your oil reaches full operating temperature
Second, consider an electric vehicle
Third, combine short trips to make longer trips wherever possible
Forth, driving aimlessly to make a short trip longer is generally false economy
Fifth, change oil more often - follow severe service guidline

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: max88
We have occasional long trips (20+KM one way), putting the car in the "less hard" conditions. There is really very little to do to improve baseline.

Since engine oil is the #1 topic here, I would like to ask about longevity of engine oil. Under which set of operating parameters will the oil last longest (in terms of time) and still protects the engine? Ignore gas, tire, brake, the environment, other people.

1. Car sits in garage. Never gets ignited. (zero utilization)
2. Car sits in garage. Gets ignited, then turned off. Twice a day. (zero utilization)
3. Start engine, drive onto the street, turn off engine. Wait 1 hour, then start engine, drive back to the garage and turned off (zero utilization).
Now lets get some real work done. All drive one way X miles, have a coffee for 1 hour, then drive X miles back.
4. X=2 miles city
5. X=10 miles city
6. X=10 miles city + 50 miles highway

Baseline: the oil reaches the end of life after 1 year on the dot under #4. How long does the oil last under other sets of parameters? Under a year, over a year? Why?

This is for the sake of discussion so please refrain from flaming.


Sounds like you and Engineer20 would have an enjoyable back and forth, giving and taking hypotheses to their Nth degree....

 

[raytseng]

Originally Posted By: max88

1. Car sits in garage. Never gets ignited. (zero utilization)
2. Car sits in garage. Gets ignited, then turned off. Twice a day. (zero utilization)
3. Start engine, drive onto the street, turn off engine. Wait 1 hour, then start engine, drive back to the garage and turned off (zero utilization).
Now lets get some real work done. All drive one way X miles, have a coffee for 1 hour, then drive X miles back.
4. X=2 miles city
5. X=10 miles city
6. X=10 miles city + 50 miles highway

Baseline: the oil reaches the end of life after 1 year on the dot under #4. How long does the oil last under other sets of parameters? Under a year, over a year? Why?




I'm in the camp that additional miles never turns the oil usage clock backwards to make it better.
Even if it's got water and fuel or other stuff in it; it stays the same until it gets used again.

The short trips and startup add the majority of wear, the additional miles after startup at operating temp just add marginal additional wear.

So I vote as follows:
(1) 700 days
(2) 368 days
(3) 367days
(4) =1year=
(5) 360days (despite having 5times the miles as 4)
(6) 350 days (despite having 2500 more miles than 5)

maybe something along those lines

 

[j4life]

I purchased my car new and it as been 99% used for short trips and city driving I use the severe maintenance schedule as specified in my manual and other than wear and tear parts likes brakes and battery I have not had any major problems

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral

You could always drive out to breakfast on Sunday morning a couple times a month -- a 25-30 mile round trip? Any good diners within 15 miles of you?


This is a good idea

OP,I make many short trips throughout the week. I just start the engine, let it idle for a couple minutes and allow the pressure to build and get the engine close to operating temperature before I leave. I also perform frequent oil changes to offest the city driving, but I wouldn't go out of my way to extend the operating time.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
I just start the engine, let it idle for a couple minutes and allow the pressure to build and get the engine close to operating temperature

[...]

but I wouldn't go out of my way to extend the operating time.

 

[jk_636]

What is funny? That I dont start it, put it in drive and go? Oh man that is hilarious...

 

[max88]

Originally Posted By: KitaCam


Sounds like you and Engineer20 would have an enjoyable back and forth, giving and taking hypotheses to their Nth degree....


I just came back from a 200KM round trip to a farm with the family and in laws, and having nothing better to do. Just so happened I would like to put my mind on one thing over the other. If video gaming is accepted as having entertainment value, hypothesis can be regarded as having an inquiring mind.