Selling my Scion after only a year. Clutch pedal Pain.

[Kurtatron]

This 2010 xD beater has been great. 10k miles and a year later, I’ve had not a single problem after fixing the initial purchase problems. A bad wheel bearing, leaking radiator, and a busted control arm bolt are all it needed. I’ve come to befriend the old junker.

But I’m so dejected because I fear I may have to get rid of it. This car has a stiff clutch, a very stiff clutch, and it’s hurting my joints badly. This isn’t a muscle problem, this is a joint issue. I’ve tried to adjust the seat to the minimize the angle my leg assumes while engaging the clutch, but the pain lingers.

I’ve read the science of clutch operation, and I haven’t nailed the problem. I’ve driven manual cars all my life, and none of them have ridden me with pain like this car.

I thought of replacing the pressure plate. Maybe the prior owner put a higher stage clutch in the car, but I discovered opening a transmission in one of these requires dropping the entire subframe from the bottom of the car. That’s too much for me to tackle without having a guarantee that it’ll fix my aching leg.

I’m trying one last ditch effort before selling it. I found a Nissan Skyline 13/16” enlarged bore slave cylinder that has a similar bolt pattern to my Scion. It’s not a guaranteed fit, but that’s why it’s a last ditch effort. I read that bigger bore slave cylinders decrease the effort on the pedal.

I’ve already tried bleeding the clutch several times, it’s not that.

I’m mostly just crying aloud. Anyone else experienced this manual transmission situation?

 

[nwjones18]

The Exedy clutch I put in my Mazda is as light to push as the gas pedal.. I don't think the clutch in yours should be any harder than that if its working right.

 

[Elkins45]

That’s one of the reasons I sold my manual xB. Starting it was the absolute worst because I had to push it all the way to the floor before the starter would engage. My left knee is not great and as much as I loved that car a traffic jam was just punishing.

I know less than zero about clutches but are they boosted with engine vacuum like power brakes? Could there be an issue with a vacuum leak? Sorry if that’s a stupid question.

My Mazda6 will spoil you for any other manual transmission.

 

[brages]

Clutches are not boosted with vacuum typically.

A non self adjusting clutch will get stiffer as it wears. I'd expect the Scion to self adjust, though.

The concentric slave cylinder might give a lighter pedal than the external slave..?

 

[Kurtatron]

Clutches are not boosted with vacuum typically.

A non self adjusting clutch will get stiffer as it wears. I'd expect the Scion to self adjust, though.

The concentric slave cylinder might give a lighter pedal than the external slave..?

Clutches get stiffer as they wear? Why is that? I know a fair amount of how they work. Hydraulics, pressure plate, fork, bearings. I have replaced a clutch before.

 

[Jetronic]

Clutches get stiffer as they wear? Why is that? I know a fair amount of how they work. Hydraulics, pressure plate, fork, bearings. I have replaced a clutch before.

They get pretty hard in the end, I don't know the cause either. I assume it's a combination of getting clutch dust and rust into the pivot points and a slight difference in the lever action in the pressure plate. Forks tend to get stuck aswell, but best seen to when changing the clutch (depebds on the design). Some forks bend due to the increased force needed.

It can go from hardly feeling the clutch to having to stand on it.

 

[Spro4Life]

As much as I liked having a manual trans car, as we get older joint/attachment issues definitely limit daily function on some level and I can live with an automatic from here on out. Will you miss shifting? Likely, but I guarantee your left side won't at all!

**On another note, I'm digging the Gorilla Tape customized panel fit on the vehicle next to yours. As well as the condition of that tire!

 

[brages]

Clutches get stiffer as they wear? Why is that? I know a fair amount of how they work. Hydraulics, pressure plate, fork, bearings. I have replaced a clutch before.

I read this on another forum:


A self adjusting clutch has been designed to keep clutch pedal pressure to a minimum through out the life of the clutch. As an ordinary clutch wears (clutch without self adjusting ) the angle of the pressure plate release fingers also changes to take up the slack, this changing angle of the pressure plate release fingers makes it more difficult to press the clutch pedal, this is where it is better to have a self adjusting clutch fitted, as this keeps the angle of the release fingers at the optimum angle allowing the clutch pedal to be pressed with minimum pressure throughout the life of the clutch.
John Bower,

I just replaced a self adjusting clutch on my Ranger with one that does not self adjust. New one seems fine, though.

But if a 1997 Ranger came with a self adjusting clutch, surely a 2010 Scion would... right?

 

[meep]

Yes, a larger diameter slave cylinder or a smaller diameter master will effective reduce both pressure required and effective travel at the bell housing. Youll want to make sure “pedal up” doesn’t have the throw out bearing engaged, while hopefully being able to still reach disengagement.

I’m in my 50s and as much as I enjoy borrowing a stick, I’m not sure my left knee could do it daily anymore. We also drive a lot more than our parents did, who had sticks all their lives until getting older.

 

[supton]

What is the cost to have a shop replace the clutch? If it is that, and it magically gets better, and you drive it for a few more years—would you be be happy? if it didn’t fix the issue, could you flip it and not feel upside down after paying for the clutch job?

I’m thinking it is worth trying, even if it fails, you can likely recoup most of the cost on resale, and write off the rest as a failed attempt at avoiding the mess that is used car buying.

 

[NibbanaBanana]

The pedal shouldn't get any stiffer as the clutch disk wears. All hydraulic clutches are self adjusting.

 

[supton]

Back when I had my Jetta I had the DMF replaced with a SMF and a clutch rated for more torque. Shockingly the pedal effort went way down! the original was barely worn, no other issues other than a failed DMF, so it was 100% magic in the pressure plate.

Dubious that an aftermarket upgrade would do the same here, but tossing that out there.

On the xD forums, do other owners have the same complaint?

 

[Kurtatron]

What is the cost to have a shop replace the clutch? If it is that, and it magically gets better, and you drive it for a few more years—would you be be happy? if it didn’t fix the issue, could you flip it and not feel upside down after paying for the clutch job?

I’m thinking it is worth trying, even if it fails, you can likely recoup most of the cost on resale, and write off the rest as a failed attempt at avoiding the mess that is used car buying.

I waver back on forth on this. I’ve listed the car for $2400 and no one is biting. I’m guessing the cosmetics of the car prevent me from selling it.

I found a post saying the transmission can be removed without the engine. If that is truly the case, I can try to open it up.

“voila! with air tools and a good friend, the trans is out in an hour.”

It would be for more cost effective to fix this clutch than replace it with another car. I see these xDs with 250k miles for sale regularly.

I’m just worried all that work may not soften it up.

 

[Kurtatron]

Back when I had my Jetta I had the DMF replaced with a SMF and a clutch rated for more torque. Shockingly the pedal effort went way down! the original was barely worn, no other issues other than a failed DMF, so it was 100% magic in the pressure plate.

Dubious that an aftermarket upgrade would do the same here, but tossing that out there.

On the xD forums, do other owners have the same complaint?

The car is too low volume. There’s not much discussion at all about the xD.

I agree with you; it’s likely the pressure plate. But I don’t want to risk replacing it only to find the pedal remains stiff.

 

[brages]

The pedal shouldn't get any stiffer as the clutch disk wears. All hydraulic clutches are self adjusting.

Incorrect

 

[Jetronic]

I read this on another forum:


A self adjusting clutch has been designed to keep clutch pedal pressure to a minimum through out the life of the clutch. As an ordinary clutch wears (clutch without self adjusting ) the angle of the pressure plate release fingers also changes to take up the slack, this changing angle of the pressure plate release fingers makes it more difficult to press the clutch pedal, this is where it is better to have a self adjusting clutch fitted, as this keeps the angle of the release fingers at the optimum angle allowing the clutch pedal to be pressed with minimum pressure throughout the life of the clutch.
John Bower,

I just replaced a self adjusting clutch on my Ranger with one that does not self adjust. New one seems fine, though.

But if a 1997 Ranger came with a self adjusting clutch, surely a 2010 Scion would... right?

No they are more rare than not self-adjusting.

 

[Nukeman7]

I think your knee joint pain issue will only get worse with age unless it is medically addressed. As such, does it make sense to continue driving ANY vehicle with a clutch as it will only aggravate the situation?

With that said, if you decide to replace the clutch and keep the XD, I would recommend using the EXEDY stock replacement grade clutch kit. In my limited experience, the stock EXEDY pressure plates are engineered to effectively require less pedal pressure than the factory OEM unit.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

That looks pretty old. Are you sure its not a work clutch fork? A lot of those trannies have derelin/nylon bushings for the fork slider that wear out too and flop around requiring a LOT more force. Could be work fork and bushings and maybe something else stacking up.
Also could be TO bearing.
If you look at this video there is a bunch of parts that need grease and pivot and you can see the "bushing" on the top. You are in HOTLANTA so it could all be dry cracked and degraded.

 

[Devo242]

Anyone else experienced this manual transmission situation?

My 2004 S60 had the same stiffness in the clutch, it built up difficulty in shifting to the point to about 50 miles shy of 200k on the original components the throwout bearing failed catastrophically. The pressure plate and disk looked fine and engaged very well up to the failure.

A new Volvo OEM clutch kit turned it into just the right amount of minimal effort to shift, minus the original dual-mass flywheel which was fine to use again (thankfully as the flywheel alone was ~$1,000 from Volvo)

I suspect your TO bearing is worn out and while I hope it not in danger of letting go like mine did, nevertheless is worn and would benefit your experience by replacing it. Unfortunately that entails as much effort as a full clutch replacement, and likely cost as it would be useful to replace the other components.

 

[Elkins45]

I’ve listed the car for $2400 and no one is biting. I’m guessing the cosmetics of the car prevent me from selling it.

How many miles? I love a good cheap Scion.