Seattle...a family city?!

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Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Heroin sould be legal.


It might as well be, it is just as easy to acquire as if it were sold at Safeway. All we're doing now is funding criminal gangs with it. The current war on drugs is not working, we need to try something different.


I'm just trying to figure out if those with the legalize heroin idea and constant mantra that booze is just as bad or worse...would think it no different to sell at a grocery store than a bottle of wine.



Talk about a simple question...


They're both intoxicating substances. Is there really a difference?


That is what I am asking you...and Jaraxle.

If the both of you believe that drinking a can of beer....and shooting up with heroin...is equivalent, then should we just sell heroin in the grocery store?
 
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I think it's presumptuous that social planners who open "shooting gallery" sites think that they'll resolve this issue by x degree in doing this...In that sense, Seattle is like most other large U.S. cities. Sometimes when you add porta-potties to an area where there's defecation and urine, the homeless and the 2AM bar crowd will use them...sometimes not. From my experience, the homeless tend to pee on them and not in them.

In San Francisco, they spent a chunk of change on some self cleaning toilet modules. Initially, these were used to shoot up in as much as go boom boom in. They now have monitors and can only be used for a short period of time. Nonetheless, I was down in the Tenderloin District a few months ago, and a guy was shooting up behind a car in a corner parking lot. My guess is that this gentlemen didn't give two effs if there was a shooting house nearby. He doesn't think like a city council member and it's unlikely that an "outreach" would permanently alter his behavior. Rightly or wrongly, there might be an argument to legalize drugs but unfortunately that may not change what's there now in a nuisance sense without different enforcement.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg


That is what I am asking you...and Jaraxle.

If the both of you believe that drinking a can of beer....and shooting up with heroin...is equivalent, then should we just sell heroin in the grocery store?


Honestly? I'm on the fence. Part of me says people have access to it anyway, legalization would defund the gangs and provide for a safe strain of the substance, not some guy wearing only underwear mixing it up in the middle of the desert in an old RV.

Sure, why not. The government has no business telling you what you can or cannot put in your body. Educate and let people decide.

Now someone pull me back over the fence!
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Heroin sould be legal.


It might as well be, it is just as easy to acquire as if it were sold at Safeway. All we're doing now is funding criminal gangs with it. The current war on drugs is not working, we need to try something different.


I'm just trying to figure out if those with the legalize heroin idea and constant mantra that booze is just as bad or worse...would think it no different to sell at a grocery store than a bottle of wine.

Talk about a simple question...


More like hard liquor, actually. Let me guess: you drink, right?
 
I realize that my views on this topic are not in agreement with many. Maybe not even most of the people here ever agree with my views.
But that being said, I do have strong opinions that I like to express.
I was trying to point out to a couple of posters that heroin and booze are entirely different. They are different culturally, addiction wise, and in the harm (per individual) done to those that partake. My direct question about selling heroin at Safeway is to illustrate that the two drugs ARE different. By not directly answering my question...it is because it doesn't support the side that they stand with.

My opinion is that simply because the fight against heroin (and other hard drugs) isn't a "victory"...does not mean that you just throw in the towel. Not all battles are won. Some are ongoing and will never be won completely. This is the case with heroin. But that doesn't mean you capitulate....or give up and even PROVIDE a place to shoot up (at taxpayers expense in some cases). Do we stop fighting termites because they don't go away? Should we just give termites a house to destroy because you can't "win"?
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: andrewg


That is what I am asking you...and Jaraxle.

If the both of you believe that drinking a can of beer....and shooting up with heroin...is equivalent, then should we just sell heroin in the grocery store?


Honestly? I'm on the fence. Part of me says people have access to it anyway, legalization would defund the gangs and provide for a safe strain of the substance, not some guy wearing only underwear mixing it up in the middle of the desert in an old RV.

Sure, why not. The government has no business telling you what you can or cannot put in your body. Educate and let people decide.

Now someone pull me back over the fence!
grin2.gif



I appreciate your honesty in answering the question. While we may disagree, I give you credit for that.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Heroin sould be legal.


It might as well be, it is just as easy to acquire as if it were sold at Safeway. All we're doing now is funding criminal gangs with it. The current war on drugs is not working, we need to try something different.


I'm just trying to figure out if those with the legalize heroin idea and constant mantra that booze is just as bad or worse...would think it no different to sell at a grocery store than a bottle of wine.

Talk about a simple question...


More like hard liquor, actually. Let me guess: you drink, right?


Wait just a second now...you, and others, don't bring up ANY differences in a beer or a bottle of hard booze. You just stated "alcohol". Beer, wine, vodka, whiskey....

So, should heroin be sold at Safeway then?

Do I drink? Well, about once or twice a year. Gives me a headache actually and I don't enjoy it.

Per your insinuation and question......let me guess, do you shoot up with heroin or take hard drugs?
 
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My main point is that I'm just trying to get some of you to agree that alcohol is not equivalent to heroin. It's extremely addictive and detrimental in the extreme. That is why it appears to be difficult for some folks to answer the question on if it should be sold at a grocery store look beer....since the constant (and incorrect) argument is brought up that hard drugs are no worse than alcohol.

To be clear...I am no friend to drunks either. Being an alcoholic is about on the same level as a heroin addict in my book. But to say that heroin, and it's obvious level of addiction and impacts on ones health is the same as alcohol, is something I won't agree with.

The problems with booze are bad enough...I don't want to see us culturally/legally accept heroin use in the same way.
 
People under the influence of heroin tend to be pretty calm. They frequently fall asleep from the high. Having a save place to shoot up would probably reduce the risk of overdoses and lower HIV infections. These "heroin safe haven" should probably be away from schools, churches and parks though.
 
andrewg said:
To be clear...I am no friend to drunks either. Being an alcoholic is about on the same level as a heroin addict in my book. But to say that heroin, and it's obvious level of addiction and impacts on ones health is the same as alcohol, is something I won't agree with.

I agree. At my local AA meeting we get drug addicts once in a while. IMO, the cost of heroin/cocaine make the hard stuff so terrible. I've heard people with up to $200 a day dope habits. One could not possibly drink $200 a day of booze without passing out.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
My main point is that I'm just trying to get some of you to agree that alcohol is not equivalent to heroin. It's extremely addictive and detrimental in the extreme. That is why it appears to be difficult for some folks to answer the question on if it should be sold at a grocery store look beer....since the constant (and incorrect) argument is brought up that hard drugs are no worse than alcohol.

To be clear...I am no friend to drunks either. Being an alcoholic is about on the same level as a heroin addict in my book. But to say that heroin, and it's obvious level of addiction and impacts on ones health is the same as alcohol, is something I won't agree with.

The problems with booze are bad enough...I don't want to see us culturally/legally accept heroin use in the same way.


I agree with you Andrew. I imagine this. I meet this hot chick,she invites me over. She lets me in and says,"Hey would you like a beer or a glass of wine before dinner?". Next expamle. She pulls out some needles and asks,"Hey would you like some herion or some coke before we eat?".

I think I'd prefer the beer or wine chick.
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
All drugs are not equal. Just like all guns are not. Only "protection" guns should be legal. Right?

laugh.gif



100% non-relative to the discussion about providing a "safe" place for drug addicts to shoot-up and be provided with needles.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: surfstar
All drugs are not equal. Just like all guns are not. Only "protection" guns should be legal. Right?

laugh.gif



100% non-relative to the discussion about providing a "safe" place for drug addicts to shoot-up and be provided with needles.


Aren't we talking about shooting ranges?

:rimshot:
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: andrewg
My main point is that I'm just trying to get some of you to agree that alcohol is not equivalent to heroin. It's extremely addictive and detrimental in the extreme. That is why it appears to be difficult for some folks to answer the question on if it should be sold at a grocery store look beer....since the constant (and incorrect) argument is brought up that hard drugs are no worse than alcohol.

To be clear...I am no friend to drunks either. Being an alcoholic is about on the same level as a heroin addict in my book. But to say that heroin, and it's obvious level of addiction and impacts on ones health is the same as alcohol, is something I won't agree with.

The problems with booze are bad enough...I don't want to see us culturally/legally accept heroin use in the same way.


I agree with you Andrew. I imagine this. I meet this hot chick,she invites me over. She lets me in and says,"Hey would you like a beer or a glass of wine before dinner?". Next expamle. She pulls out some needles and asks,"Hey would you like some herion or some coke before we eat?".

I think I'd prefer the beer or wine chick.


Ha ha ha...yep. If she pulled out the needles...I know that that would be a very quick GOOD-BYE from me and a very thankful thought that I did not jump in the bed with her being that she is an addict. Yikes.
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: surfstar
All drugs are not equal. Just like all guns are not. Only "protection" guns should be legal. Right?

laugh.gif



100% non-relative to the discussion about providing a "safe" place for drug addicts to shoot-up and be provided with needles.


Aren't we talking about shooting ranges?

:rimshot:
laugh.gif



Ha ha ha...sort of. But then again, I don't want a "shooting range" anywhere near a city park!
 
Legalize heroin? ... wow, I doubt that will ever happen. Might as well legalize PCP, Meth and LSD too while they are at it (sarcasm of course).
 
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