searching for non turbo, non cvt, newish vehicle

[Cujet]

Take a drive in a camry hybrid.

I do like the Camry hybrid for its size and efficiency. But I like the way the accord hybrid drives a lot more.

The Honda directly drives the wheels via a clutch coupling over a certain speed. But cold weather and lithium batteries are not a good mix.

 

[Ws6]

I do like the Camry hybrid for its size and efficiency. But I like the way the accord hybrid drives a lot more.

The Honda directly drives the wheels via a clutch coupling over a certain speed. But cold weather and lithium batteries are not a good mix.

Its fine, if you have a hybrid. Just wont get as far on battery alone.

 

[Wolf359]

Why not a 2016 Mercedes E-350? 7 speed automatic and available with AWD. It's 302hp and a V6, no turbo, no CVT. The price increase for used cars have hit all makes, but not the luxury makes as much as more common cars. Probably can get a decent low mileage one in the 22-28k range. Last year for that platform before they went turbo 4 cylinders the next year and basically all turbos for V6/V8 so most problems were worked out.

 

[Ws6]

Why not a 2016 Mercedes E-350? 7 speed automatic and available with AWD. It's 302hp and a V6, no turbo, no CVT. The price increase for used cars have hit all makes, but not the luxury makes as much as more common cars. Probably can get a decent low mileage one in the 22-28k range. Last year for that platform before they went turbo 4 cylinders the next year and basically all turbos for V6/V8 so most problems were worked out.

Because OP doesn't want a CVT or turbo, I can only presume OP doesn't want an old German luxury car, and likely for the same reasons, lol!

 

[Wolf359]

Because OP doesn't want a CVT or turbo, I can only presume OP doesn't want an old German luxury car, and likely for the same reasons, lol!

Oh yeah, I guess he left that part out. You can still get them as CPO. Lots of newer is basically all turbo or CVT. Even the V6 and V8 engines that are current are also turbos. Even their E63 which used to be a regular 6.3L V8 in 2011 is now down to a 4.0L turbo. But in 10 years you went from 0-60 in 4.1 seconds down to 3 seconds and gas mileage went from 13/20 to 16/23. Cars got faster and gas mileage improved with turbos.

Just a hard combo to find these days, newish and non turbo. High horsepower usually eliminates the CVT. I'm really surprised with some of the tunes out there, NA engines get just a few horse powers with a tune and if you have a turbo, you get big jumps probably because they allow the boost to build.

 

[Tahoe4Life]

I vote for the 2.5 Ford Fusion.

 

[dareo]

If you just want low tech and low cost the Dodge Journey fits the bill. 4 speed auto, port injected engine, nothing to get excited about.

For a nicer vehicle i would look at a Jeep Grand Cherokee pentastar V6.

Of course you could just buy a new direct injected vehicle and not worry about it. Valve deposits either never happen or don't happen for a very long time mileage wise. Like 80-120k on average. Then its not that big of a deal to get it cleaned out. That maintenance cost is saved in the fuel economy and performance offered by DI.

 

[dgunay]

I was a fan of old-school Japanese cars, I wouldn't have bought a car with turbo, direct injection, cvt/dct. I was planning to keep my car(s) as long as possible.

After the accident, my car got totaled and I realized life is too short to worry about it. I would still not buy a "performance" car with a cvt and I would buy a dual injection engine if it's available within my budget.

To answer your question: newer Mazdas come to mind if you are looking for a car with a regular automatic. Though Skyactiv is still DI, they are probably the most reliable DIs in the market. A friend of mine abused (several hundred hours of idling etc.) his '12 Mazda 3 Skyactiv and after 200000 miles the car is still fine.

 

[NitroM3]

Just a hard combo to find these days, newish and non turbo. High horsepower usually eliminates the CVT. I'm really surprised with some of the tunes out there, NA engines get just a few horse powers with a tune and if you have a turbo, you get big jumps probably because they allow the boost to build.

This is not necessarily an accurate. There is more to just an ECU Performance Calibration and it does take hours of careful DATA Logging and study to do safe calibrations changes and their are limits to improving the engines safe output unless you change other parts on a Turbocharged vehicle so if you are comparing the same platform with and without a Turbo the increases are not that big a difference.
What does "BIG" represent to some? Big to me would be more then 20HP and 15 FTLB of torque on completely stock unmodified engine parts most 4 cylinder applications.
And because their are less FULL ACCESS PROGRAMS for N/A engines to do complete ECU global Performance Calibration Adjustments how would anyone really have a good comparison between a Stock N/A and a Turbocharged of the same platform and running gear?

 

[UG_Passat]

This is not necessarily an accurate. There is more to just an ECU Performance Calibration and it does take hours of careful DATA Logging and study to do safe calibrations changes and their are limits to improving the engines safe output unless you change other parts on a Turbocharged vehicle so if you are comparing the same platform with and without a Turbo the increases are not that big a difference.
What does "BIG" represent to some? Big to me would be more then 20HP and 15 FTLB of torque on completely stock unmodified engine parts most 4 cylinder applications.
And because their are less FULL ACCESS PROGRAMS for N/A engines to do complete ECU global Performance Calibration Adjustments how would anyone really have a good comparison between a Stock N/A and a Turbocharged of the same platform and running gear?

In the case of the VW Atlas 2.0TSI....

with the "APR Plus" tuned for 87 AKI

But they don't offer a VR6 tune, because there's not much you can do to extract more power on a 91/93 AKI specific tune, like you would a turbocharged engine. The gains for the money will be quite expensive.

If you want a 91 AKI tune....

then if 93 AKI is readily available...

87 AKI is an ECU remap only.
91/93, it's recommended to use a specific colder plug for best results

 

[UG_Passat]

I should throw in Toyota Hybrid, like a Camry hybrid.

Yes, for marketing purposes Toyota calls the transmission a E-CVT, due to the end result of it operating like a CVT, however it's proven to be robust transmission as it uses a planetary gearset (like a conventional automatic)

 

[Wolf359]

This is not necessarily an accurate. There is more to just an ECU Performance Calibration and it does take hours of careful DATA Logging and study to do safe calibrations changes and their are limits to improving the engines safe output unless you change other parts on a Turbocharged vehicle so if you are comparing the same platform with and without a Turbo the increases are not that big a difference.
What does "BIG" represent to some? Big to me would be more then 20HP and 15 FTLB of torque on completely stock unmodified engine parts most 4 cylinder applications.
And because their are less FULL ACCESS PROGRAMS for N/A engines to do complete ECU global Performance Calibration Adjustments how would anyone really have a good comparison between a Stock N/A and a Turbocharged of the same platform and running gear?

You can compare the Mercedes E550. The early years was just a 5.5 V8 with no turbo, that tune gets you a 20hp boost. With the 4.7L turbo, the tune gets you a 105hp boost. Regular AMG 6.3L engine gets a 26hp boost, turbo 5.5L gets 119hp.

E - 212

E - 212. Read more

www.renntechmercedes.com

Also I'm not sure if you're trying to imply that the only valid comparison is the same engine with a turbo and without a turbo. Lots of manufacturers just put in a smaller engine with a turbo to get more power without sacrificing fuel economy which is really important these days.

 

[NitroM3]

Neither of you read what I said.. but that's ok... lol I said... FIRST "This is not necessarily an accurate". Then I said same platform same running gear 4 cylinder.
In no way did I say ALL !

I also don't really review DYNO Data that has been SAE smoothed. Who knows what really happened, and as a well experence DYNO Operator and other of the same those sheets posted are missing a ton of information. I call them BRAG sheets. LOL
I think true EFI/Performance Calibrators understand that statement.

Ok now I have slapped that hornets nest again..... LOL

 

[UG_Passat]

Neither of you read what I said.. but that's ok... lol I said... FIRST "This is not necessarily an accurate". Then I said same platform same running gear 4 cylinder.
In no way did I say ALL !

I also don't really review DYNO Data that has been SAE smoothed. Who knows what really happened, and as a well experence DYNO Operator and other of the same those sheets posted are missing a ton of information. I call them BRAG sheets. LOL
I think true EFI/Performance Calibrators understand that statement.

Ok now I have slapped that hornets nest again..... LOL

Which company you know of sells both a NA 4-banger and a FI 4-banger and corresponding tuner that offers tunes for both?

If you know how engines work and the parameters needed to make the air-fuel mixture go boom, then you would know that ECU tweaks to a NA 4-banger will only make your wallet lighter.

 

[NitroM3]

Which company you know of sells both a NA 4-banger and a FI 4-banger and corresponding tuner that offers tunes for both?

If you know how engines work and the parameters needed to make the air-fuel mixture go boom, then you would know that ECU tweaks to a NA 4-banger will only make your wallet lighter.

Um first of all I do Performance calibrating on 3 different platforms for a small customer(several are in England) developed base going on since about 2006ish. I also flew from CA to Florida to go to a school to learn how to actually do proper ECU/EFI Performance Calibrating. So I am not self taught by any means . LOL . I DONT DO TOOOONS, but a complete comprehensive ECU Calibration based on specific Data logging of engine runs that my customers send to me to review . I do not believe in a casual upload of people and business that offer "make better single program" uploads with a flash. Oh and often LOCK the ECU so someone that knows what they are doing can correct the mistakes made by them. Also if any programing spends less then an hour or 2 calibrating they are "TOONERS". Not a professional ECU Calibrator.
If you are a true ECU Calibrator then you know what I am talking about and if your not then you will argue with me... LOL. In which case we will have NO frame of reference. LOL

All I said was one member simply made a slightly inaccurate responses. No you want to argue and debate and post up a EDITED DYNO sheet... REALLY!
Go find a less to impress member please....... cuzz I ain't impressed..

Let me just finish this conversation that I also suggest and recommend that the OP not get a Turbo or Supercharged engine.
Now I have nothing mopre to add to this thread...
bye!

 

[UG_Passat]

Um first of all I do Performance calibrating on 3 different platforms for a small customer(several are in England) developed base going on since about 2006ish. I also flew from CA to Florida to go to a school to learn how to actually do proper ECU/EFI Performance Calibrating. So I am not self taught by any means . LOL . I DONT DO TOOOONS, but a complete comprehensive ECU Calibration based on specific Data logging of engine runs that my customers send to me to review . I do not believe in a casual upload of people and business that offer "make better single program" uploads with a flash. Oh and often LOCK the ECU so someone that knows what they are doing can correct the mistakes made by them. Also if any programing spends less then an hour or 2 calibrating they are "TOONERS". Not a professional ECU Calibrator.
If you are a true ECU Calibrator then you know what I am talking about and if your not then you will argue with me... LOL. In which case we will have NO frame of reference. LOL

All I said was one member simply made a slightly inaccurate responses. No you want to argue and debate and post up a EDITED DYNO sheet... REALLY!
Go find a less to impress member please....... cuzz I ain't impressed..

Let me just finish this conversation that I also suggest and recommend that the OP not get a Turbo or Supercharged engine.
Now I have nothing mopre to add to this thread...
bye!

You didn't have anything to add anyway AND if you read the OP's criteria, the OP didn't want a turbo and supercharged engine to begin with.

And with your expertise, you never explained the black magic it takes for ECU remap to cram more air into an engine to cram more fuel on a naturally aspirated engine equivalent to ECU remap on a turbocharged engine can do....

 

[Wolf359]

Neither of you read what I said.. but that's ok... lol I said... FIRST "This is not necessarily an accurate". Then I said same platform same running gear 4 cylinder.
In no way did I say ALL !

I also don't really review DYNO Data that has been SAE smoothed. Who knows what really happened, and as a well experence DYNO Operator and other of the same those sheets posted are missing a ton of information. I call them BRAG sheets. LOL
I think true EFI/Performance Calibrators understand that statement.

Ok now I have slapped that hornets nest again..... LOL

I did read what you said but you should have read what I said. I said I was impressed with some tunes. Not all so how could you even construe that to be inaccurate?

 

[NitroM3]

Just a hard combo to find these days, newish and non turbo. High horsepower usually eliminates the CVT. I'm really surprised with some of the tunes out there, NA engines get just a few horse powers with a tune and if you have a turbo, you get big jumps probably because they allow the boost to build.

That sir is fundamentally inaccurate. ^^^^^^^^ and maybe MYTH supported comment?
I said 4 cyd stock engines same platforms and running gear... NO BIG JUMPS!
In order to achieve.... "BIG" jumps you need to add supporting power parts or other parts capable of increasing the engine power output. The ECU simply adjusts and ties every thing together so the added parts work the best. One reason why if you are building an engine around a stock baseline the best approach is to add as much or all the parts you desire and then find a competent ECU Calibrator to make every thing work together. On a Turbocharged engine most are lilted by the OEM sensors as well mechanical limiters, so no matter what you do to the ECU your are going to be limited to what you can do without changing some parts.

NA engines just always seem to get a bad rap now because to many MYTHs about not being able to make power like a Turbocharger or supercharger based on limitation of base models . Now I will say if the highest power output is the goal then even a N/A upgrade to a supercharger or Turbo charger or both would be on the menu. However carefully planned parts on a NA can yield some impressive power numbers. But as they say SPEED COST HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?

And I want to stress and point out again this is comparing 4 cyl platforms Dailey drivers commonly available retail at dealerships (do I need to clarify more) with the same running gears one with a Turbo and one NA.
There is no "BIG" gains with ECU Calibrating alone!

I also need to point out that the MARKET to offer NA Custom ECU performance Calibration or even STAGED preprogramed uploads is extremely small and also why some MYTH or belief that most NA can't be ECU Calibrated to increase a percentage in power gain close to their twin with a Turbo WITH NO ADDED ADDITIONPOWER PARTS. I suppose now we can debate what you call a BIG gain vs what I do. Roughly speaking I think if both had a program that allowed full ECU access to all the PIDS each platform would still be close naturally the Turbocharged engine would still lead but not by that much and would only change 1/4 mile times in the tenths not the seconds.
And on a Road Track the driver skills would be the degerming factor which car ran faster laps times because a Turbo will start to raise all the operating temperatures quicker and the ECU will start to compensate which would reduce its output. LOL

 

[Wolf359]

That sir is fundamentally inaccurate. ^^^^^^^^ and maybe MYTH supported comment?
I said 4 cyd stock engines same platforms and running gear... NO BIG JUMPS!
In order to achieve.... "BIG" jumps you need to add supporting power parts or other parts capable of increasing the engine power output. The ECU simply adjusts and ties every thing together so the added parts work the best. One reason why if you are building an engine around a stock baseline the best approach is to add as much or all the parts you desire and then find a competent ECU Calibrator to make every thing work together. On a Turbocharged engine most are lilted by the OEM sensors as well mechanical limiters, so no matter what you do to the ECU your are going to be limited to what you can do without changing some parts.

NA engines just always seem to get a bad rap now because to many MYTHs about not being able to make power like a Turbocharger or supercharger based on limitation of base models . Now I will say if the highest power output is the goal then even a N/A upgrade to a supercharger or Turbo charger or both would be on the menu. However carefully planned parts on a NA can yield some impressive power numbers. But as they say SPEED COST HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?

And I want to stress and point out again this is comparing 4 cyl platforms Dailey drivers commonly available retail at dealerships (do I need to clarify more) with the same running gears one with a Turbo and one NA.
There is no "BIG" gains with ECU Calibrating alone!

I also need to point out that the MARKET to offer NA Custom ECU performance Calibration or even STAGED preprogramed uploads is extremely small and also why some MYTH or belief that most NA can't be ECU Calibrated to increase a percentage in power gain close to their twin with a Turbo WITH NO ADDED ADDITIONPOWER PARTS. I suppose now we can debate what you call a BIG gain vs what I do. Roughly speaking I think if both had a program that allowed full ECU access to all the PIDS each platform would still be close naturally the Turbocharged engine would still lead but not by that much and would only change 1/4 mile times in the tenths not the seconds.
And on a Road Track the driver skills would be the degerming factor which car ran faster laps times because a Turbo will start to raise all the operating temperatures quicker and the ECU will start to compensate which would reduce its output. LOL

Read my comment again, you forgot to highlight SOME. How can you even say that a statement that refers to SOME is inaccurate when I wasn't even referring to ALL. There's a difference between the words SOME and ALL.

Also I was really referring to Mercedes and I backed up my claim with a reference, their E-550 is a V8 engine. I've also seen tunes in the past, used to have a Chrysler 2.2 Turbo and they also had a regular 2.2 4 cylinder, the quick fix in the aftermarket turbo computer was just to give you more boost. I'm not sure how Renntech does it with their tunes, but maybe just more boost is the easiest way. It's just a tune, no other parts. They do sell other parts that would boost hp even more, but I was just talking about what just a tune can do. So there was nothing inaccurate when I said that SOME tunes can give you good boosts of horsepower. Of course the corollary to that is that there are SOME others that do not such as your 4 cylinder example.

 

[gregk24]

I get where you are coming from. There was a day when I said I’d never own a VW or a turbo’d vehicle. Certainly not both!

Then, I drove one.