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Apollo14, do you watch the news?

Using your web browser type in 'Militants Seize Old Chemical Weapons plant in Iraq.' You will find page after page from several news organizations concerning how ISIS has overrun old Saddam Hussein chemical weapons plants and how old chemical weapons are being found that the Iraqis buried when the invasion of Iraq took place.

And I am not talking about just Fox News. There are news reports from the Washington Post, CBS News, the Wall Street Journal, the BBC, and so forth. You should be able to find everything you need.
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
The Iraq Survey Group looked for WMDs for over a year.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
On October 6, 2004, the head of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), Charles Duelfer, announced to the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee that the group found no evidence that Iraq under Saddam Hussein had produced and stockpiled any weapons of mass destruction since 1991, when UN sanctions were imposed.


https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/index.html#sect1

So which chemical weapons have been found in Iraq Mystic?


Mori - you're quoting an outdated, publicly edited source...and pointing to the results from over a decade ago, in which a few people were responsible for searching a country a bit bigger than the state of California...

In the public record, it has recently been revealed that chemical artillery shells were found several years ago. Soldiers who found them experienced the after-effects of chemical exposure even though the shells weren't handled or fired.

The government kept the matter secret.

It's been all over the news. Given your anti-government postings in the past, I am surprised that you didn't know....or are you being deliberately contradictory?
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Here Apollo14, let me help you:

http://time.com/2901562/iraq-isis-chemical-weapons/

The facility still contains a stockpile of old weapons, but they are contaminated and hard to transport, and officials don’t believe the militants could make a chemical weapon out of them

Originally Posted By: Mystic


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/isla...70eb_story.html



Embattled Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ‘will not go quietly,’ foes and friends say

Originally Posted By: Mystic

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/iraq-isis-seiz...40.html#vM8SAGl


The US State Department said that they believe jihadist fighters with Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) will not be able to make any use of the material seized at the Al Muthanna complex as it is too old, contaminated and difficult to move.

"We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible to safely move the materials," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki

Originally Posted By: Mystic

http://online.wsj.com/articles/sunni-ext...lity-1403190600


Officials Don't Believe the Militants Will Be Able to Create a Functional Weapon From the Material.

=======================
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/librar...l3_cw-anx-b.htm

Two wars, sanctions and UNSCOM oversight reduced Iraqi’s premier production facility to a stockpile of old damaged and contaminated chemical munitions(sealed in bunkers), a wasteland full of destroyed chemical munitions, razed structures, and unusable war-ravaged facilities.

Whole lot of noise over junk.
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14

Well I am glad not to have been misunderstood then!

Here are a few charts I find interesting:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

ownership-death630.png

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

Firearms Deaths by Mode of Death for Children
Top 10 Countries - Rate per 100,000

FOR114.gif

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/

Gun%20ViolenceEDIT-thumb-600x600-40178.jpg


How dare you bring evidence into talk about guns in America. Shame on you!
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
You cant argue with a highly respected source like Mother Jones.
crackmeup2.gif




Quote:
Mother Jones has been nominated for 27 National Magazine Awards and has won six times, including for General Excellence in 2001,[14] 2008,[15] and 2010.[16]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Jones_%28magazine%29
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Apollo14

Well I am glad not to have been misunderstood then!

Here are a few charts I find interesting:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

ownership-death630.png

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

Firearms Deaths by Mode of Death for Children
Top 10 Countries - Rate per 100,000

FOR114.gif

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/

Gun%20ViolenceEDIT-thumb-600x600-40178.jpg


How dare you bring evidence into talk about guns in America. Shame on you!


He didn't bring evidence, he brought a chart, created through selective application of facts, that is intended to support a political point of view...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14

He didn't bring evidence, he brought a chart, created through selective application of facts, that is intended to support a political point of view...


Next we'll get some cute memes from the Occupy website. It's only a matter of time. We already got the classic line: "Bush did it!" That one is wearing a little though.

Any moment now one of the alter egos will comment!

Great job, Mori.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Astro14
In the public record, it has recently been revealed that chemical artillery shells were found several years ago. Soldiers who found them experienced the after-effects of chemical exposure even though the shells weren't handled or fired.

The government kept the matter secret.

It's been all over the news. Given your anti-government postings in the past, I am surprised that you didn't know....or are you being deliberately contradictory?


I was the first person to post about that.

Do you not understand the distinction between the inoperative pre 1991 chemical weapons that we helped Saddam get and the non existent chemical weapons which were the reason given to us for invasion?

Are you seriously saying that the chemical weapons we were looking for were the inoperative ones from before 1991?

Are you saying that those viewers in 2003 who said we had found chemical weapons were referring to the inoperative ones - which we hadn't found at the time - and were therefore correct?
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Next we'll get some cute memes from the Occupy website. It's only a matter of time. We already got the classic line: "Bush did it!" That one is wearing a little though.

Any moment now one of the alter egos will comment!


It's interesting that you only make your points by:

1) Making statements without any sources eg the WMD's are in Syria
2) Not answering any of the questions put to you about your statements eg how did the US not know the weapons had been moved to Syria or why didn't they take action at the time to recover the weapons from Syria

That's because you just make stuff up and apart from that the only thing you have to offer are insults.
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: Astro14
In the public record, it has recently been revealed that chemical artillery shells were found several years ago. Soldiers who found them experienced the after-effects of chemical exposure even though the shells weren't handled or fired.

The government kept the matter secret.

It's been all over the news. Given your anti-government postings in the past, I am surprised that you didn't know....or are you being deliberately contradictory?


I was the first person to post about that.

Do you not understand the distinction between the inoperative pre 1991 chemical weapons that we helped Saddam get and the non existent chemical weapons which were the reason given to us for invasion?

Are you seriously saying that the chemical weapons we were looking for were the inoperative ones from before 1991?

Are you saying that those viewers in 2003 who said we had found chemical weapons were referring to the inoperative ones - which we hadn't found at the time - and were therefore correct?


I understand a lot about chemical weapons, how they work, what was found, and when.

Someday, when all the information is made public, you will too.

In the meantime, you've got a lot more of your life to dedicate to this pointless argument than I do. I'm done.
 
Trajan, you can try to support Mori all you want to, but I explained in my post above, as anybody can check and see, that for some reason in the case of the Washington Post the correct link did not get copied. Anybody can type into their web browsers 'Militants Seize old Saddam Hussein Chemical Weapons Plant' and find many, many sources of information, including the link from the Washington Post I had intended to use.

That old chemical weapons plant and the buried aged chemical weapons that have been found PROVE that Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons. As if any proof was needed because SADDAM HUSSEIN USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST THE KURDS! Is that not proof enough?

And some of those old, buried chemical weapons still harmed American soldiers who came across them. The Iraqis buried a large amount of chemical weapons stockpile to prevent discovery by Allied forces and some other chemical and perhaps biological weapons may have been transported somewhere. Trucks were observed leaving Iraq, but I am not going to get into all of that.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I understand a lot about chemical weapons, how they work, what was found, and when.

Someday, when all the information is made public, you will too.


More unsubstantiated nonsense.

They were there, they were buried, they were in Syria. Now unspecified claims that you have information that others don't.

The entire administration that led us into war has admitted there were no chemical weapons.

And when they found out about the pre 1991 inoperative ones, they didn't come out and proclaim they were right all along and clear their names? In fact they covered it up because they knew they had begun to find the DISMANTLED chemical weapons THEY had provided before 1991. In other words, here was evidence not only that Saddam had NO chemical weapon program since at least 1991, but that he had DISABLED those that America and others had helped him get.

It's so transparent where several of you are getting your narrative from:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/10/17/right-wing-medias-failed-attempt-to-justify-ira/201216
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Trajan, you can try to support Mori all you want to, but I explained in my post above, as anybody can check and see, that for some reason in the case of the Washington Post the correct link did not get copied. Anybody can type into their web browsers 'Militants Seize old Saddam Hussein Chemical Weapons Plant' and find many, many sources of information, including the link from the Washington Post I had intended to use.

That old chemical weapons plant and the buried aged chemical weapons that have been found PROVE that Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons. As if any proof was needed because SADDAM HUSSEIN USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST THE KURDS! Is that not proof enough?

And some of those old, buried chemical weapons still harmed American soldiers who came across them. The Iraqis buried a large amount of chemical weapons stockpile to prevent discovery by Allied forces and some other chemical and perhaps biological weapons may have been transported somewhere. Trucks were observed leaving Iraq, but I am not going to get into all of that.


Mystic, I urge you to read the original article about the discovery of the chemical weapons:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/...al-weapons.html
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic


That old chemical weapons plant and the buried aged chemical weapons that have been found PROVE that Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons. As if any proof was needed because SADDAM HUSSEIN USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST THE KURDS! Is that not proof enough?




I don't recall ever saying that he didn't use chemical weapons against the Kurds.

Now you can scream about it all you want. But old, useless, contaminated, weapons don't count.

You do know that they were from the Iran-Iraq War?

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php

February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries.

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops.

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax.

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq.

February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages.

US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas.

August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds.

September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq.

September, 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives."

December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons.

July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House.

February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome.

"The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times.

If you want to scream about chemical weapons that *we* provided, that's fine.

But it is irrelevant to events from Gulf War II and what was found after the end. See, having old contaminated weapons is not the same as developing new ones, is it.

The ones you scream about are way past the expiration date.

Oh, and why don't you grow up and call Apollo 14 by the name used and stop being childish with this "mori" stuff. Unless you can prove it beyond doubt.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Trajan
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php

February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries.

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops.

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax.

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq.

February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages.

US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas.

August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds.

September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq.

September, 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives."

December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons.

July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House.

February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome.

"The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times.


Careful Trajan, you'll be labelled anti-American and asked to leave the country by the same people who say this:

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I'm done.


Smart move buddy!


I agree. He left himself no option after claiming that chemical weapons were found in Iraq in 2003 and that Saddam was working with Al Qaeda.
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
It would be good to understand which of the statistics you take issue with rather than dismiss them out of hand with no explanation why.

It was the graph. That line could have been positioned almost anywhere and in any orientation, given the outliers and spread. In fact, a best fit would be darn near impossible. That same data could be used with a different line to "prove" the exact opposite point.

As for WMDs in Iraq, I will never believe that Hussein got rid of all his stocks, and it doesn't matter who gave them to him or helped him get them.
 
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