Can anyone tell me why Schaeffers uses a Group 2 base oil rather than a Group 3 in their 7000 blend series? Is it simply a matter of cost?
Schaeffer's base oil
- Thread starter Tom B
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1) Group III base oil is the so-called synthetic oil that most over-the-counter "synthetic" motor oils are made out of. It has some drawbacks, and Schaeffer gets the performance they want from top quality Group II or Group II+ base oils plus the PAO synthetic.
2) The cost difference between Group III base oil and common Group II base oil is only a few cents a quart http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000165748.cfm?x=a1V9Pkj,a12MT5WC
Schaeffer's choice of top quality Group II oil might be close in cost to common Group III oil.
Ken
2) The cost difference between Group III base oil and common Group II base oil is only a few cents a quart http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000165748.cfm?x=a1V9Pkj,a12MT5WC
Schaeffer's choice of top quality Group II oil might be close in cost to common Group III oil.
Ken
I believe the only difference between Group II and III is the viscosity index.
Thanks for your responses. I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge. This board is the place to go for answers. Thanks again.
Tom, enjoy having you and everyone else on here. It's questions such as this that helps to make this board what it is.
bob
bob
No Group III base stock in Schaeffer #701 5W-30: "Supreme 7000 SAE 5W-30 is blended from the finest quality solvent refined, severely raffinate hydroconverted Group II Plus 100% paraffin base oils and polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base fluids available"
http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/701.htm
Ken
Everyone is reforming and I believe the Schaeffers is now Grp III primarily, based on conversations with Bob and others. I THINK it has been for months of production.
If true this is one sleeper oil for the money. As Schaeffers really keeps the quality up there.
Please confirm my info Schaeffers guys.
If true this is one sleeper oil for the money. As Schaeffers really keeps the quality up there.
Please confirm my info Schaeffers guys.
Honestly Terry, the only one I was told that was a group III mixed with pao was the 703 by Larry, but as you can see, I don't have anything else to go by other than what is shown on the tech data sheet. All others were suppose to be either gI or gII or combination there of according to td's and Larry. But as stated before on earlier post, I really believe that there's way too much put into which group is better and is mis understood as such as this is not the intent of the api rating system for groups.
bob
[ July 12, 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
bob
[ July 12, 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
oooooooooo k
Patman
Staff member
I can't wait to see my 5k results on the 5w30 Schaeffer Oil. The group 3 should help ensure the viscosity doesn't drop as well, as it should be more stable than the group 2+ (or so I'm assuming)
Terry, you should've just made one more post to hit the magic 1000 mark before the day is over!
Terry, you should've just made one more post to hit the magic 1000 mark before the day is over!
NO, actually cost is the farthest thing to do with this...
I think this is where most people fail to understand and think that the base oil used, group whatever, qualifies the oil to be ok,better than ok, good, better than good, and best depending on what base stock that is used. INCORRECT. The different groups mentioned..
group I,II,III,IV,V and so on does NOT MEAN that one is better than the other.
Base oils are classified as either
- Paraffinic
- Naphthenic
- Aromatic
- Synthetic
These classification refer to the molecular structure of the base oil, not a measurement of which is better and best.
In 94 a broad classification of base stocks was developed by the API for the purpose of creating guidelines and base oil read across performance for the licensing of engine oils.
This was used to determine min engine testing requirements when substituting one base oil for another.
This broad classification was used to identify the base stock by its composition and the methods used to refine or produce them. These classifications do not mean or imply that one group is better than the other.
Certain aspects of a group I and group II are better for natural lubricity than a III or IV.
Let's look at the Schaeffers 10w30 for example,
Solvent refined is mentioned- This helps increase the VI index, Also solvent refined base oils retain some of the natural antioxidants that are needed for good oxidation stability.
Severely raffinate hydroconverted 100% paraffin base oils- This process is where they process the raffinates by placing it into a proprietary hydroconversion reactor that saturates the aromatic and naphathinic compounds into highly paraffinic molecules. Next the lube oil factions are stabilized and fractionated in a finishing reactor to further improve the base oils VI and volatility characteristics.
The next step is the lube oil fractions undergo solvent dewaxing. After that, the final product is now a group II basestock of 105-120 Vi.
Dewaxing is used to remove wax that is in waxy raffinates in order to improve the base oils low temp operability.
Now add in polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base fluids to the above. Now there is many positive things about this fluid in addition to the groups mentioned above that enhances even more the base properties of the other groups therefore you no longer are using just a group I or II but a special designer group mix that takes many different qualities of each group and makes a better than average base stock then you add in a highly specialized performance additive package and a highly shear stable viscosity index improver
on top of the already good stable VI's, again enhancing the VI's from the 80-120 now to 150VI. As you can see, we no longer are looking at just a group I or II base oil but a base oil that's not even classified on here.
Ok, last thing... Then ad in a proven frictional modifier, Micron Moly®, a liquid soluble type of Moly that plates to the metal surfaces of the engine. Once plated, the Moly forms a long lasting lubricant film, which prevents the metal surfaces from coming into contact with each other.
Ok, what does that do, well, by reducing friction because of inherent scuffing due to shearing of the hydrodynamic process, we now don't have near the heat demand on the base oil, so then we find we're not creating as much oxidation with the base oil due to excessive heat, where as those that don't use such, will have more heat stress therefore needs a higher level of base stock to resist the offset of heat.
This combination has proven out in oil analysis to hold up as well as most all "full" synth's yet possesses better wear protection in many cases. This process is also used by LE I believe as they too do not use a full synth but a blend of gI and II oils to build their base stocks.
To learn more on PAO and other base stocks, I have a page built for more reference..
Oil Basics about base stocks
I hope this helps answer your question.
bob
[ July 12, 2003, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
Patman
Staff member
Their 5w30 blend uses about 75-80% group 3 and 20-25% PAO. The 10w30 uses group 2+ and PAO.
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