Schaeffer #703 10W-30, Toyota V8, 7339 miles

[Ken2]

Schaeffer's #703 10W-30 synthetic blend oil
7339 miles on the oil (sampled only)
zero make up oil
2001 Toyota 4.7L V8, 34159 miles
Toyota Denso 90915-20004 oil filter (not changed)
Toyota Denso air filter
CTC Reno lab
87 octane gasoline (usually Safeway, sometimes Chevron) with Schaeffer's SoyUltra @ 1 oz. per 9 gallons.
Weather 30-50°F
Combination rural highways and city driving

code:

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Iron 11 ppm

Chromium 1

Lead 5

Copper 14

Tin 5

Aluminum 1

Nickel 0

Silver 0

Silcon 2

Boron 0

Magnesium 11

Calcium 3010

Barium 0

Phosphorus 1019

Zinc 1225

Moly 101

Titanium 0

Vanadium 0

Potassium 0

Fuel nil

vis 10.3 (30 wt)

water nil

soot/solids 0.3%

glycon nil

oxidation 0.03%

nitration 0.01%

TBN 6.1

"...no corrective action required."

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I'll test this oil again at 10k. I'm not sure of the source of the copper, but it's consistently high. Iron at 1.5 ppm per 1000 miles looks good to me.

Comments?
Ken

[ January 10, 2004, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]

 

[Al]

So you did not drain this?? Oil held up really well Silicon 2 ???????????. The copper and tin is high. That is something to watch for sure. Don't quite believe the Oxidation/Nitration

Great job on the oil holding up for this blend. You gotta love it

 

[TooSlick]

Ken,

Results look outstanding ...I hope Bob still drops in from time to time!

As you know, Cu alloyed with Sn is brass or bronze, so you can make an educated guess as to where it's coming from if you can determine the metallurgy of this engine. I'd guess cam bearings or perhaps a crankshaft thrust washer? I think if you look at the 3.4L , V-6, you will see the same wear pattern.

What's the compression ratio in the 4.7L engine? - I noted the 87 octane fuel and would like something bigger than the Tacoma ....

Patman,

This is the best V-8 on the market in a vehicle that cost less than $40k (The Passat W-8), in terms of both materials and design - there is no debate! All the mechanical or aerospace engineers I know also own Toyotas.

Ted

 

[TooSlick]

Iron wear in a domestic, 5.0L, V-8 engine is normally 3-5 ppm/1000 miles, just for comparison. You still get 250k out of an engine that wears at that rate....

This is the wear pattern of a 400,000-500,000 mile engine....

 

[Ken2]

I think the compression is 9.5. With modern knock sensors and other computer gizmos, high compression can be combined with low octane fuel...the timing can be advanced when the engine load is low for fuel savings, and the timing retarded for knock prevention when the load is high. The Tundra, Sequioa, and 4Runner have this engine available. I think the Landcruiser and Lexus 4.7 is a slightly different state of tune.


Ken

 

[JohnBrowning]

If I had to guess not haveing seen the inside of the 4.7 V8 I would guess thrust bearing/washer. Toyota does not use cam bearing like GM's OHV designs. The cam bearings/supports are aluminum and cast directly into the head.

Just so everyone knows if ever they needed it they can be rebuilt and remachined. You normaly have to send this work out since few machine shops do this work. I had to have a neighbors Trooper Heads sent out for this once. Some OHC designs are beefy enough that you can just grind the cap and rebore/hone.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
Iron wear in a domestic, 5.0L, V-8 engine is normally 3-5 ppm/1000 miles, just for comparison. You still get 250k out of an engine that wears at that rate....

This is the wear pattern of a 400,000-500,000 mile engine....

---

If you subtract the 3.4ppm of iron (which is what the VOA of my batch of GC showed) from my last UOA, it works out to an iron rate of 1.54ppm/1000 miles in my LT1 5.7 V8, and that's with tons of full throttle driving including 9 quarter mile runs. My lead rate (after subtracting the 0.5ppm from the voa) worked out to exactly 1ppm/1000 miles. This was with GC 0w30.

For a hard driven domestic V8 to show wear numbers like mine did, you have to be impressed Ted. Unfortunately, Schaeffer oil did not do this well in my Firebird. Instead of seeing just over 3ppm of lead in 3.1k, I saw 11ppm of lead.

Imagine how much lower my wear numbers would be if I didn't go full throttle so often!!

[ January 11, 2004, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Wow patman......once you factor in the extra liter of displacement (more cylinder area to wear), your LT-1 did better in the iron department, than this toyota did.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
Wow patman......once you factor in the extra liter of displacement (more cylinder area to wear), your LT-1 did better in the iron department, than this toyota did.

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My LT1 has an iron block, and I'm sure this Toyota is aluminum, so if that's the case, this makes my iron numbers even more impressive.

 

[BlackF250]

No, What's this? A big AMERICAN v-8 with better wear numbers than a Toyota?

Couldn't be!!

 

[Ken2]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
My LT1 has an iron block, and I'm sure this Toyota is aluminum, so if that's the case, this makes my iron numbers even more impressive.

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Toyota's 4.7L V-8 in the Tundra has an iron block with aluminum heads.


Ken

 

[Patman]

Isn't that kind of unusual for a Toyota to come with an iron block? I thought they made nothing but all aluminum engines? For that matter I thought all Japanese engines were built like this lately.

 

[Brett Miller]

Doesn't matter Patman. The rings still run on an iron liner.

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Some of toyota's aluminum blocks don't use an iron cylinder sleeve.

 

[Ken2]

Anyway, the Tundra V-8 block is cast iron.


Ken

 

[Patman]

I wouldn't have even mentioned it except for the fact that Ted seems to think domestic V8s don't last long, despite the fact that there are probably way more Ford and GM trucks out there with over 400k on them than he realizes.

 

[BlackF250]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
I wouldn't have even mentioned it except for the fact that Ted seems to think domestic V8s don't last long, despite the fact that there are probably way more Ford and GM trucks out there with over 400k on them than he realizes.

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I would put money on the fact that there are more 400k plus Ford and GM's than there are Toyota's.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by BlackF250:

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
I wouldn't have even mentioned it except for the fact that Ted seems to think domestic V8s don't last long, despite the fact that there are probably way more Ford and GM trucks out there with over 400k on them than he realizes.

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I would put money on the fact that there are more 400k plus Ford and GM's than there are Toyota's.

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I was going to say that, however he probably would've countered back with the fact that they sell considerably more Ford and GM trucks than they do Toyota trucks.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

Not in the world market! We have to quit thinking domestic as there is a whole world out there with few Ford or GM trucks.

 

[tundra30]

Domestic?
Ha! Nothing is "domestic" anymore!