Schaeffer 7000 5w-30, Honda B16A, 1.6L, 3000miles

HRD · Jan 7, 2004

This engine has been heavily modified. The engine was rebuilt/blueprinted/balanced at the 84,000 mile mark (oil was sampled at the 90,500mile mark). It has aftermarket camshafts, valvetrain, high compression pistons. It runs at 12:1 compression and revs to 9000rpms.
Driving conditions were about 2/3rds city and 1/3rd highway.
This was the first run with Schaeffer's oil.
Oh and my catalytic convertor was dying during most of this interval.

Car: 1994 Honda DelSol (EG2)
Engine: 1.6L 4-cyl (B16A)
Oil: Schaeffer's 7000 5w-30
Total miles on engine: 90500 (rebuilt at 84000)
Total miles on oil: 3000miles
Make up Oil: None

Lab: Blackstone

aluminum 4
chromium 1
iron 9
copper 3
lead 2
tin 0
moly 66
nickel 0
manganese 1
silver 0
titanium 0
potassium 0
boron 9
silicon 11
sodium 3
calcium 1631
magnesium 5
phosphorus 666
zinc 845
barium 0

TBN 4.1

SUS 54.8
flashpoint 350
fuel 0.8
water 0.0
antifreeze 0
insolubles 0.3

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Patman · Jan 7, 2004

Less than 1% fuel wouldn't account for that much thinning though. I had 1.0% fuel in my Schaeffer 10w30 last winter, and the viscosity of that batch only dropped from 10.3 down to 10.1 (I had done an early sample on that batch at 700 miles, and had no fuel in that sample)

Revving it out to 9000rpm is probably what caused the thinning. Even though the oil did very well here, I would probably still suggest trying Redline in here, especially in the hot summer when the oil temps would be much hotter.

HRD · Jan 7, 2004

Thanks for the comments so far guys

I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to this oil analysis stuff. But considering it's only been 6000miles since the engine got rebuilt, the numbers seem good.
I figure the fuel is from the rings still seating?

Patman, why do you recommend the switch to Redline? Because of it's high moly content? Also, are you suggesting I use something a bit thicker in grade?

Patman · Jan 7, 2004

I recommend Redline since it's formulated with very hard driving in mind, and it's polyol ester base stock will help it be more durable when you're spinning that motor to 9000rpm. The higher moly should help out in that respect also.

I don't necessarily think you need to go thicker though, you should be just fine with their 5w30 (and if you did go thicker you'd be robbing yourself of a few hp too)

Don't get me wrong though, Schaeffer Oil did do very well here as far as wear numbers, I just think Redline is a better fit for this engine in the long run.

uconn1150 · Jan 8, 2004

I have the same engine. Since I'm in a warmer climate, I'm running Schaeffers 15w-40. Since this is my first run of Schaeffers, I'm going to change it out after 4-5k. Then, I'll go for a longer interval, but then do an OA around 5k. It will be interesting to compare numbers after you break in your engine a little more. Bet that will be fun! How often do you engage the VTEC? I usually do it at least once a day just to know that it's there. I know that some ppl simply redline it in every gear. I'd like to see those UOAs!

Al · Jan 8, 2004

I also think you should be happy with the wear metals since there are only 6K miles on it since rebuild.

I'm always interesr4ed to see a Schaeffer's result since I now have the 10W-30 Schaeffers in my Sentra.

Patman · Jan 8, 2004

Considering all the conditions this engine faces, those are great numbers! Seeing the lead so low with a heavily modified engine is very impressive, especially since it thinned out so heavily too.

[ February 09, 2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

shortyb · Jan 8, 2004

Looks like the fuel brought down the visc, TBN, and flash a bit. I'm sure the bad cat was sending bogus info to the fuel computer. Everything else looks pretty good considering the mods you have.

Another decent Schaeffers report IMO.

HRD · Jan 8, 2004

I will try redline after the now current Schaeffer's is ready to be changed in 3000miles or so.

uconn1150 - I probably don't run it as hard on a daily basis as some might think. But no doubt it's fun...

Thanks for the comments so far!

Bror Jace · Jan 9, 2004

These results look excellent!! Heck, they would be OK for a stock motor. Reading your motor description (before I scrolled down) I was expecting DOUBLE the amount of wear metals!

So I would hold off on switching brands. I'm a fan of Red Line but I think Schaeffer did really well in this application. If anything, I would merely try the same S7K but in 10W30.

HRD, did you modify the fuel system in any way? Larger fuel rail? Different regulator? Etc ...

Oh, and whoever built that motor really knew what they were doing. 9,000 RPM and lead of 2?? Doesn't get any better 'n this.

I'd send them a copy of that report along with a thank you note.

--- Bror Jace

Al · Jan 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Oh, and whoever built that motor really knew what they were doing. 9,000 RPM and lead of 2?? Doesn't get any better 'n this.

I'd send them a copy of that report along with a thank you note.

--- Bror Jace

So true

HRD · Jan 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bror Jace:

So I would hold off on switching brands. I'm a fan of Red Line but I think Schaeffer did really well in this application. If anything, I would merely try the same S7K but in 10W30.

HRD, did you modify the fuel system in any way? Larger fuel rail? Different regulator? Etc ...

Oh, and whoever built that motor really knew what they were doing. 9,000 RPM and lead of 2?? Doesn't get any better 'n this.

I'd send them a copy of that report along with a thank you note.

--- Bror Jace

As far as the fuel system, other than an adj. fuel regulator, it's all stock. Common thought is to up the injector size a bit but after much discussion with my engine builder (who I trust!) we decided just to rebuild/blueprint/balance the stockers. Cost wasn't an issue so...
Air/fuel is manipulated mostly by a programmable ECU.
I don't trust many people with my cars. Never have. But I have known and done business with my engine builder for 10 years or so. Believe me, he doesn't need a note telling him he did a good job

Regarding my tuner (different than engine builder) I went with reputation and referral, and I must say I wasn't disappointed. Top guys to work with. It was a real pleasure.

Getting back on topic of oil, I think I will give Schaeffer's a couple more UOA to prove it self. Probably will switch to 10w-30 for the next change.

And once again, thanks for the comments!

HRD

Robbie Alexander · Jan 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by HRD:
This engine has been heavily modified. The engine was rebuilt/blueprinted/balanced at the -*-*

how much does something LIKE having it balanced RUN? and who did you have do it>?

David · Jan 12, 2004

But I want to inform you that the Schaeffer Oils starts out @ about 140-170ppm of moly. The 15w40 starts a little on the higher side.

[ February 09, 2004, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

Motorbike · Jan 12, 2004

Good catch Patman . This looks like a 3rd generation oil with SJ having around 3000ppm of calcium 1280ppm zinc

Another generation SL after would typically have 1690 calcium and 980 zinc then there is this one .

It's only natural to find these oil makers reformulating though and rarely do they do so for the worse . This oil did very well at lower additive rates and I think it's better to have adds in lower abundance that work synergisticly together than a huge add pack that does not work as well for the most part when speaking of PCMO's in moderate drain intervals .

David · Jan 14, 2004

I just sent in a sample of #701 5w30 for analysis. Lets see what we get.

Also email Larry Ludwig, Chief Chemist at schaeffer and here is his reply

"Dear David,

The amount of Moly that we use in all of our engine oils has not dropped. The ppm range for Moly is 150-200.

I will post the oil analysis when I received it back.
Have A Great Day!
David

[ February 09, 2004, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

MolaKule · Jan 15, 2004

And this is the same chemist who made this statement?:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000600

HRD · Feb 9, 2004

I leave the country for a few weeks, and this happens to my thread

So any results on the virgin sample?

Robbie Alexander,

If you are really interested in how much and who did the work, send me a PM and I will be more than happy to respond.

Regards.

Motorbike · Feb 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
And this is the same chemist who made this statement?:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000600

I just did a search and could not find a VOA of the 132 purposed in that thread .... did this 132 analysis get done ? Or did I simply over look it . If so , someone please guide me to it .

David · Feb 13, 2004

Well guys here's the moly ppm on a virgin sample of Schaeffer #701 (5w30) Moly @147 ppm . I also talked to Karen in the oil analysis dept. at schaeffer. She told me that moly content would not always be the same ppm. She said would range from about 130-160 ppm in most of Xw30 oils and a little more in the 15w40's

Also somebody ask about the moly in #132. I did send that sample out to them a long time back, and never got it back. I will send another. But what I understand the moly content will not be that great. Because it is first a viscosity improver and just some moly in it, mainly to help a worn out engine. I think Larry Ludwig was wrong in what he told me.

[ February 13, 2004, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: David ]

Schaeffer 7000 5w-30, Honda B16A, 1.6L, 3000miles

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