Saturn rings stuck

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It is the classic Saturn oil drinker. 1 quart per 1k. Have done one treatment of Auto-rx and am 1500 mile into the dino oil after. I have another dose coming, is there anything special to do, other than the regular directions, to get these rings loose? The first dose did give the car more apparent power but I would at least like to see reduced consumption. Can the creators comment?
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I will be following this thread closely. Right now I am trying to stop oil consumption in a '94 Saturn SL2 with 44k miles. Compared to you (and a lot of other Saturn owners), my rate is low, only 1/2 qt in 1300 miles. Unfortunately I do not have long term oil consumption rates. It has seen a dry dipstick at least once.

I am not using AutoRx, but I might try it if my current plan of attack doesn't get results in a couple of rounds.

I started by changing the PCV valve, no effect.

I ran 6 oz of SeaFoam in the crankcase for a few hundred miles, too short of a time to know if this helped. This weekend I ran a Gunk engine flush after putting B'Laster Small Engine Tune-Up in the cylinders. The engine flush is primarily to start cleaning up the varnish and whatever else might be in the engine from the hard times when we didn't know the oil was burning up, but it could have an effect on cleaning up the rings. Then I filled up with two bottles of CD2 oil detergent (the yellow bottle) plus 3 quarts of Citgo 5W30 and a Pennzoil filter. That is the cheapest SL oil and filter I could find besides the WalMart brand, since it won't be in for very long and may get burned up anyway. I'll run this for less than 3 thousand miles. I hope that filter will be good enough until I switch back to Pure One or Mobil 1, which I usually use for the long drain intervals on synthetic oil.

If the consumption stops, I'll switch to Mobil 1 with SeaFoam in the crankcase. Otherwise I'll try another round of chemotherapy.

On top of that, I will be using SeaFoam, Techron concentrate, and/or Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas to clean up the carbon I saw in the combustion chamber.

Obviously, with four different things going in, it will be hard to know if just one or the combination is responsible for whatever change I see. That is unfortunate, but I think in my case being aggressive is the right way to start since the car averages only 5500 miles/year, it would take years to try just one thing at a time. I am only interested in getting results, then finding a formula for preventing the problem in the long term. I am determined to find an answer and let other Saturn owners know what works. And perhaps what doesn't.

I have a question for you. You didn't explicitly say what your oil consumption rate was after the AutoRx. Has it changed at all?

[ August 12, 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Racer X ]
 
Ugh, I just searched the filters topic and discovered the Pennzoil filter is made by Fram... I wonder if I should yank that sucker ASAP or just ride it out. Anyone who's changed a Saturn filter knows it is not an exercise in neatness, you practically need a hazmat cleanup permit when you're done.
Ugh, again.
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I'm a fellow Saturn driver battling the infamous oil drinking problem in my '99 SL. I used a couple of doses of Auto-RX, and initially thought it hadn't done any good. However, my consumption has dropped from approximately 1.5 - 2 quarts between 3000 mile changes to barely over 1 quart. I also have improved power and acceleration, and my usual pinging has all but disappeared. My advice on the Auto-RX is to keep with it, even if it seems like it's not doing anything at first. As a matter of fact, I'm going to run another course of it on my next oil change, since I have 143,000 miles and it seems like I have a really tough case.

For what it's worth, I've also been using Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas tank, and I've just switched to Lucas gas treatment to try that out. This combined with the Auto-RX has given me an encouraging jump in MPG. I also use Techron Concentrate every 3000 miles. For those of you not in the know, these engines carbon up in no time flat.

I didn't cut open my filters to see what kind of crud was coming out of my engine, but I can tell you that within 50 miles of running Auto-Rx, I could feel a gritty substance suspended in the oil that had been splashed up near the oil filler cap on the valve cover. The varnish around the oil filler cap was also gone. This after running the car on Mobil 1 5w-30 and Amsoil 10w-40 exclusively.

The bottom line is, when they say this stuff works based on mileage, not on time, they're not kidding. It seems to work slowly -- which is what you want -- to strip off layer after layer of junk. Use it in combination with a top end cleaner, and I think you'll be pleased with the results.
 
No, the Auto-RX did not alter my cars drinking habits. Kev99 I just sent you, I think, a personal e-mail about this problem. My wife did notice more power but I have not yet opened the filter. Saturnforum members can now get 2 for one till the 15 or 16th. I am about to try another Auto-rx treatment, should I leave it in longer? Anyone.
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quote:

Originally posted by Chris:
No, the Auto-RX did not alter my cars drinking habits. Kev99 I just sent you, I think, a personal e-mail about this problem. My wife did notice more power but I have not yet opened the filter. Saturnforum members can now get 2 for one till the 15 or 16th. I am about to try another Auto-rx treatment, should I leave it in longer? Anyone.
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Chris, I received and replied to your email. I would strongly suggest leaving it in longer. I did the standard high-mileage application, and then did a third application that was aborted about 300 miles in due to some lifter noise (unrelated to the Auto-RX). I also started adding 4 - 6 ounces of MMO to the gas tank each time I fill up. At first, my consumption actually seemed to accelerate a little, but it's now settled down to 1 quart between changes, and with the latest change it seems like it might be getting even better. I'm 1700 miles into this change, and I've used just about 16 ounces so far. I just ordered 2 more bottles of Auto-RX, and I plan on giving it another go at my next oil change.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Johnny:
Racer X: You will be just fine with the Pennzoil filter. Don't go to the trouble of taking it off until your ready to change your oil.

Right, the Saturn filter that the dealer put on was a Fram, too, and I don't wake up in a cold sweat over that.

On a side note, when I was in WalMart this weekend, I was overwhelmed by the fact that Fram is now making at least four different lines of oil filters - including one with PTFE, which has been thoroughly debunked and left for dead. At least that only leaves three filters I'd have to compare if I were buying Fram...
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In correspondence with Auto-Rx representatives they are offering personalized help for the Saturn engine issue.

If you have a problem with increased oil consumption Auto-Rx may be a low cost alternative that safely/slowly cleans up the rings and allow normal operation again.

Mutiple treatments are needed to clean the Varnished oil residue from the oil rings.

An increase in performance (indicating better compression and ring seal) on the first treatment seems to indicate that the engine can be cleaned.

No benefit in performance after 1 treatment seems to indicate that the engine will require mechanical repairs to correct problem.

Contact them directly at Auto-Rx.com
 
Member
Member # 24

posted August 11, 2002 08:56 PM
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It is the classic Saturn oil drinker. 1 quart per 1k. Have done one treatment of Auto-rx and am 1500 mile into the dino oil after. I have another dose coming, is there anything special to do, other than the regular directions, to get these rings loose? The first dose did give the car more apparent power but I would at least like to see reduced consumption. Can the creators comment?
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Posts: 51 | From: Atlanta | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged

FORGIVE ME PLEASE, BUT WHAT IS DINO OIL? I HAVE AN '02 WRX WITH ALMOST 500 MILES ON IT. WHAT SHOULD I BE DOING HERE?
 
Dino oil is simply another term for conventional oil (non synthetic) It is derived from the term
dinosaur, which is sort of what oil is (dead dinosaurs all scrunched up in the ground)
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I promised to follow this thread closely, and here is the current status.

At 44000 miles, before doing any chemical treatments, I was down 1/2 qt after 1330 miles for a rate of 1.12 qt/3000 miles.
At the time of my last post, at 44210 miles, I started the treatment with a Gunk engine flush, B'laster SET in the cylinders, and 2 bottles of CD2 Oil Detergent in Citgo 5W-30. There was heavy varnish, but little or no sludge in the valvetrain, and 3 cylinders were carboned while one cylinder was clean.
At 44600 I put 13 oz of SeaFoam in the gas.
At 44940 I put 5 oz Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas.
At 44960 I was down 0.4 qt for a rate of 1.6 qt/3000 miles.
At 45077 I was down 1/2 qt for a rate of 1.73qt/3000 miles.
At 45104 I added 6 oz SeaFoam to the oil and topped off with Citgo oil.
At 46057 I was down 0.6 qt for a rate of 1.9 qt/3000 miles.

At this point I had run nearly 2000 miles on the CD2 Oil Detergent, and 1000 miles on the SeaFoam. I observed that the consumption rate had nearly doubled. Inspection of the valvetrain through the oil fill hole showed that after the initial Gunk flush, the varnish had not noticeably changed, and at this point, I could notice only marginal improvement after the other additives.

I decided to end the trial of the CD2/SeaFoam and start using the AutoRx.

I am an engineer and I decided to make up my own regimen for using the AutoRx. Sorry Frank, you gave me custom instructions for Saturns, but I am experimenting too! I changed the oil and filter, added 8 oz AutoRx, 1 qt 15W-40 Mobil Delvac 1300 SJ formula, and the remainder is Citgo 5W-30. Frank recommends using Delvac 1300, but since I can only get it in 15W-40, I decided to mix it to keep the viscosity closer to Saturn's spec of 5W-30. This is important especially since winter is approaching, and the timing chain tensioner is supposedly very sensitive to lubrication. I already had one fail and it was expensive.

I observed a couple of interesting things about the AutoRx. First, I tried measuring it in a graduated funnel that has a valve and metal screen strainer. The AutoRx flowed extremely slowly through this strainer and I had to quit using it because it just wasn't working. The heavy Delvac 1300 flowed slowly, but fast enough, through the same funnel. Second, I noticed a lot of tiny granules in the AutoRx, and this has been described by other people. I don't know what they are. You have to wonder: some people have observed granules in their oil filter after using AutoRx, are these the same thing? Are they soluble in oil, or soluble at higher temperatures? Are they soft or abrasive? Are they precipitates? Based on other peoples' experience with AutoRx, I have faith that it is normal and harmless, but I think it is something that has not been well explained in these forums.

Here is what is really interesting. After 300 miles of using AutoRx, I have zero oil consumption. I am having a hard time explaining this, I expected at best to see a gradually decreasing oil consumption rate, but right now I cannot see any loss.
I plan to change only the filter at 500 and 1000 miles. I am not sure when I will change the oil completely, but based on Frank and Terry's mail, there is no danger to leaving the AutoRx in for a full 3000 mile cycle. I will make my decisions based on what the car is doing as time goes on.

I think it is too early to come to any conclusions, but two things are clear.
1. I took a chance with the Gunk engine flush and did not have catastrophic engine failure, but I also did not see a visible improvement in the varnished valvetrain or reduced oil consumption.
2. The CD2 Oil Detergent, and later the SeaFoam, did not reduce oil consumption, in fact the consumption rate appeared to dramatically increase.

That leads me to speculate on some hypotheses. I cannot tell where the loss is, but there are no external leaks. For sure these additives were having an effect. Were they cleaning up the cylinders and increasing blowby, or messing up the valve stem seals, or breaking up carbon on the oil control rings to make it easy for AutoRx to deliver the knockout punch? I wish I could be sure.

My short term objective is to stop the oil consumption by chemical means. My long-term objective is to maintain the engine in a normal (extremely low) oil consumption rate after that. And my overriding objective is to share what I've done so others can learn from it. So look for another installment as I continue monitoring the oil consumption. Eventually I'll be able to say if this regimen really worked, and then hopefully I can move to the long-term phase of this case study.
 
Does anyone think that the recommended addition of 2 oz. of Auto-Rx per oil charge for future oil changes after the cleaning will be beneficial?

Ken
 
Here's a crazy idea. Would installing a catch can or a breather on the PCV system help reduce crankcase pressure, and thereby promote better ring sealing? Just a thought ...
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ken:
Does anyone think that the recommended addition of 2 oz. of Auto-Rx per oil charge for future oil changes after the cleaning will be beneficial?

Ken


Actually for Saturns the AutoRx recommended maintenance dose is 3oz in each oil change. I would bet money that the oil burning would start again unless this is done.
 
kev99sl,

The crankcase pressure in the bottom and top of the engine is slightly below atmospheric pressure with a PCV.

I would think you would want some vapor scavenging while cleaning.
 
I think the "granules" have to do with the temperature of the Auto-RX. You need to make sure that the bottle is kept at room temperature for at least 4 hours (I'd say more to be safe) before using it. It certainly shouldn't be "thick" or have a hard time at all pouring through a strainer, IF you've followed the directions and made sure the bottle is nice and toasty. Every time I used it, it poured like water.
 
To all members please visit topic "Recommended Oil
With Auto-Rx". It's very well done and by a member who posted it. Part of the Auto-Rx formulation is lanolin and we have encapsulated
this "Natural Ingredient" in wax crystals, they
are softer than plastic and it is Absolutely Impossible to "Scratch Metal" with Auto-Rx or any of the other ingredients that make up the formulation.These wax crystals melt at engine operating temperatures. Crystals found in filters is a normal event, they have become part of the contaminants and driven to the filter. Last note take a crystal and hold it between your thumb and forefinger it will melt if you roll them.

Edited to correct a word.

[ November 11, 2002, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
 
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