According to the June Lubes N Greases magazine, about 20% of the US market is SA and SB, with labels like "recommended for high temperature use and for cars requiring SA, SB, non-detergent protection. This product provides a high level of protection against wear, rust and corrosion, piston scuffing, combustion chamber deposits, high temmperature oxidation and valve train wear."
Another: "a superior all weather motor oil. API service SA, SC, miscible with SF, SG/CC, SH/CD, SJ. Please consult your owner's manual for proper application."
They don't have an on-line version
SA & SB Motor oil is 20% of US market
- Thread starter widman
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That is shocking to me. Some people who don't know much about motor oil could get confused and use an SA or SB rated oil in their vehicles, and ruin their engines. There are probably very few vehicles that require SA or SB rated motor oil. I believe that SA has no chemical additives whatsoever, and SB only has anti-wear additives. Heck, a Model T would probably be better off with modern oils.
I think that this is evidence that the federal government needs to spot check motor oils for chemical additives and viscosity.
Screw'm, it's not the federal gov't job to ensure people use good oil. If people are idiots, too bad.
quote:
Originally posted by Mystic: I think that this is evidence that the federal government needs to spot check motor oils for chemical additives and viscosity.
I see alot of that non-detergent oil at smaller gas stations around me. It's mostly the "Chalet" brand. Sometimes it's all they offer, they carry no other brands. There are always a few empty bottles around the trash can.
I know not to use it on anything other than a chainsaw chain.
API-SA oil isn't good for any engine built after the '30s, and SB OK for pre-'67 engines...but SJ or SL would be a better choice.
http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/Guidechart2002.pdf
Ken
I don't know about 20% of the market (seems high) - but I don't think the government should use our tax dollars to regulate a somewhat over regulated industry (mostly EPA). Sorry if people can't read the stinkin' manual.....
Still it's amazin' - the price difference isn't really that much to even get an SJ.
Some people shouldn't breed, drive, drink, etc...but I don't think on this the 4th of Julio -we need a consitutional amendment to add these activities.
I use sae30ND in an old air compressor I have and we use it in the old air compressors at work as well.
quote:That used to be common - using 20 or 30 weight non-detergent oil in air compressors. Now it seems like even the small ones are recommending better lubes. Campbell Hausfeld recommends Mobil-1 5W-30...
Originally posted by sbc350gearhead: I use sae30ND in an old air compressor I have and we use it in the old air compressors at work as well.
It is very odd that they would be selling engine oils having SA and SB performance classifications considering that both have been listed as Obsolete for several years. When a classification is listed as Obsolete in SAE J183, that translates to the fact that it would be extremely difficult to have the oil tested against those engine tests that were once specified for that classification as they no longer exist. If anything, they should be marketed and sold as non detergent oils for whatever use is desired, but not for current automotive engine unless you have a real oil consumer. One more example where FTC is not doing its job.
20% is an enormous portion of the market.
This big a number makes me wonder if the 20% also includes the base oils the refiners are selling to the non-affiliated oil blenders.
Does that make sense? Is the base oil sold to say Royal Purple, or Schaeffer's (assuming RP & Schaeffer's don't refine their own) being called SA oil sold?
20% of the market could include other things like inductrial applications or somthing. i dont think it needs to be *^*just*^* automotive.
but in the automotive catagory, i know alot of old timers break in new engines on that oil. i dont know why but they use it supposed to be better for break in or somthing. its really popular in gocart racing.
quote:Nope. Base oil is sold as base oil. The API service categories only relate to the finished product. Ken
Originally posted by Neil Womack: 20% is an enormous portion of the market. This big a number makes me wonder if the 20% also includes the base oils the refiners are selling to the non-affiliated oil blenders. Does that make sense? Is the base oil sold to say Royal Purple, or Schaeffer's (assuming RP & Schaeffer's don't refine their own) being called SA oil sold?
quote:Way back when, non-detergent oils were recommended for break-in. That has not been the case for many years. There are special situations, but for almost all new engines and engine rebuilds, the oil specified for running is the correct oil for break-in. Shorter initial one or two oil change intervals might indeed be a good idea...don't know about carts--they might be one of the special situations, and do not relate to cars and trucks. I'd been using detergent motor oil in air compressors years ago following the recommendations of the oil company...we had more maintenance than we should have and always poor analysis results. On my own initiative, I switched to a non-detergent machinery oil, like a very thick hydraulic oil, and got cleaner valves, less wear, and longer compressor life. Ken
Originally posted by cryptokid: 20% of the market could include other things like industrial applications or something. i don't think it needs to be *^*just*^* automotive. but in the automotive category, i know a lot of old timers break in new engines on that oil. i don't know why but they use it supposed to be better for break in or something. its really popular in gocart racing.
I've seen that SA oil in the grocery store right next to the normal SJ and higher rated oils. And it's very cheap: $.54/qt. I've seen two different kinds of people that buy that oil.
One is the person that has a really old car that uses or leaks oil and they have to pour in a quart every week or two. They get away with it because of the clearances in those old engines and because they add so much new oil.
The other is the teenager who got a 5 year old car from their parents when they became a senior or graduated. You see these kids pour this cheap oil into their cars because it's all they can afford and then they pull away from the store with blue smoke coming from the exhaust. It's a shame no one taught them how to take care of their car correctly. And it doesn't make me feel very good knowing that their engine at that point is living on borrowed time and the kids are oblivious to it.
MolaKule
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I found some literature from about 1974 that lists the Service Classificiations and additive packages for motor oils to the SE level, with the older API 1509 classification in [ ]:
SA- [ML] - Gasoline or Diesel Engines for light duty (speed, loads and temperature operation); may contain pour and foam depresessants.
SB- [MM] - Gasoline Engine oils for moderate duty requiring slight additive treatment for oil oxidation, bearing corrosion, and scuffing (EP). Evaluation Tests: L-38, Sequence IV.
SC- [MS] - 1964-1967 automobile warranty engine oils requiring more protection additives from high- and low-temperature sludge deposits and varnish, wear, rust, deposits, oxidation, and scuffing. Evaluation: Tests L1-, L-38, Sequences IIA, IIIA, IV, and V.
SD- 1968-1971 gasoline automobile and truck warranty oils satisfying Service SC, but with more (additive) protection from high- and low-temperature sludge deposits and varnish, wear, rust, deposits, oxidation, and scuffing. Evaluation: Tests L1-, L-38, Sequences IIA, IIIA, IV, and V, VB, and Falcon.
SE- 1972 gasoline automobile and truck warranty oils, satisfying Service SD, but with more (additive) protection from high- and low-temperature sludge deposits and varnish, wear, rust, deposits, oxidation, and scuffing. Evaluation: Tests L-38, Sequences IIB, IIIC, IV, and VC.
I do find the twenty percent figure hard to believe. You can hardly find the stuff here, and California is practically a third-world country.
I buy about a quart a year of ND 30 for chain saw bar oil. Coastal is the brand in my garage now.
Patman
Staff member
More info from Lubes N Greases:
quote:
California Cracks Down on SA, SB Oils The state of California is stepping up its enforcement of a law requiring marketers of API SA and SB engine oils to label them as obsolete and potentially harmful to modern engines. State officials hope the campaign will reduce the amount of substandard oil purchased by motorists. At least some oil marketers predict it will not.
Here is more on why it's not so prevalent in California. I find interesting the justifications by the Amalie and Coastal people.
http://www.LubeReport.com/e_article000165744.cfm?x=a1V9Pkj,asyF1P2
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