Thanks guys. All I can say is that I'm shocked Amsoil's claims are not too accurate. I'll probably go back to Mobil 1 and change it every 5-7K. Certain Toyota engines have sludge problems due to cooling passages in the heads that cause the engine to get excessively hot and break down the oil. My car is not one of them. My manua states 7,500 miles under normal driving conditions. I see no problem going this far. In fact a Toyota forum has many people who use Mobil 1 and change it from 7k to 15K and all of them have never had a problem. Two of the guys have 200,000 miles on there cars. I'd like to see a comparison between Amsoil's 0w-30 and Mobil's 0w-30. Based on Amsoil's hype, i can't see Mobil competeing with this oil.
RPMs effect on Oil
- Thread starter buster
- Start date
- Status
http://www.pecuniary.com/newsletters/toyota.html
here you go. right now it is speculation but toyota will never admit they screwed up. sounds like a design flaw, but it could be just some stupid people who dont know when to change the oil.....
here you go. right now it is speculation but toyota will never admit they screwed up. sounds like a design flaw, but it could be just some stupid people who dont know when to change the oil.....
MolaKule
Staff member
Buster,
If you're driving a Nissan 4-cyl or the Toyota V-6, I would definately EMPHASIZE Used Oil Analysis starting at 3.5k. Don't swallow the hype of any oil company; I don't believe you can "peanutbutter" one oil or oil type and say it applies to all engines.
While a certain Amsoil may last 10k miles in Al's Suburban with frequent filter changes and top-offs, it may degrade quickly in a Toyota or Nissan in which you have high power densities, low sump capacities, and no extra oil cooling.
If you're driving a Nissan 4-cyl or the Toyota V-6, I would definately EMPHASIZE Used Oil Analysis starting at 3.5k. Don't swallow the hype of any oil company; I don't believe you can "peanutbutter" one oil or oil type and say it applies to all engines.
While a certain Amsoil may last 10k miles in Al's Suburban with frequent filter changes and top-offs, it may degrade quickly in a Toyota or Nissan in which you have high power densities, low sump capacities, and no extra oil cooling.
Molekule,
If the vehicle manufacturer recommends drain intervals of 7500 miles/1 year under "normal conditions" - as does Toyota - then you should be able to run even an average quality, "SL" rated petroleum oil this long. I would certainly consider 90% highway driving @ 75 mph to be almost ideal in terms of oil degradation, wouldn't you? Toyota has been pushing to get the even better, GF-4 oils on the market ASAP, according to Lubricants World magazine. Why do you think that is?
If you can't run this 7500 drain interval under ideal conditions, then the engine design is defective - period. That is why Toyota has agreed to settle this issue out of court and extend the warranty on these 3.3 million affected engines to 8 years with unlimited mileage - provided you can show the oil has been changed at least every 7500 miles.
I would not be surprised to see Nissan go the same route on their 2.4L if they start having oil related engine failures. Designing a pickup truck engine that is used to carry heavy loads this way is simply poor engineering. Of all people, you should certainly understand that ....
If the vehicle manufacturer recommends drain intervals of 7500 miles/1 year under "normal conditions" - as does Toyota - then you should be able to run even an average quality, "SL" rated petroleum oil this long. I would certainly consider 90% highway driving @ 75 mph to be almost ideal in terms of oil degradation, wouldn't you? Toyota has been pushing to get the even better, GF-4 oils on the market ASAP, according to Lubricants World magazine. Why do you think that is?
If you can't run this 7500 drain interval under ideal conditions, then the engine design is defective - period. That is why Toyota has agreed to settle this issue out of court and extend the warranty on these 3.3 million affected engines to 8 years with unlimited mileage - provided you can show the oil has been changed at least every 7500 miles.
I would not be surprised to see Nissan go the same route on their 2.4L if they start having oil related engine failures. Designing a pickup truck engine that is used to carry heavy loads this way is simply poor engineering. Of all people, you should certainly understand that ....
TooSlick,
It would certainly stand to reason that an engine that cannot go 7500 miles on nowaday oils could be considered defective but... The are not defective. The engines run extremely well under 4k drains. It's because they put more demand on an oil that it is really a big problem for oil extentions. I'm not sure but I'll check but the real reason they were doing the 8yr campain is because they are a class act company and maybe feel there is some responsibility on their part but in business you don't accept blame because of the sue crazyness of today's world so the less claim to responsiblity the better, but in the basic publics eyes, they look like they aren't to blame but they are willing to help as a good will jesture.
They have been trying to stay up with the other manufactures for a less maintainance hassle free car and felt they could extend as everyone else. Problem is, they are not like everyone else. Notice that the sludge issue started to appear around mid 97's. This is approx a year after api moved from the API spec of SH to SJ lower zddp levels and many reformulations rely'd on the barrier additive to keep the stress of the base stock oil. Now with the new SL oils, they are hoping this will eliminate some of the problems that arose from the intial change over. These engines have not change basic mechanical design with the gears for a long time. Most changes have been with injection systems, and emmissions. As I investigated this problem , I found that no emmsissions problem was the cause and there was no evidence of clogged pcv's or hose problems. Fact is, they were not replaced but used on the rebuilt unit.
After studing many oil analysis's, it became apparent that the oil was being sheared down 1 grade in viscosity after 3k. Interesting note... Any engine that followed a 3k drain interval, did not have any sludge issues. Those that followed the 5-7500 mile recommendation did. I believe that they were going to reduce the drain intevals from 5-7500 to 3-5,000. That along with newer base stock oils, more resistant to sludging up would be to their benifet. That's why they are pushing hard on the oil suppliers as they know their design isn't the problem as the otc oils have a problem of sustaining the demand placed on it.
It would certainly stand to reason that an engine that cannot go 7500 miles on nowaday oils could be considered defective but... The are not defective. The engines run extremely well under 4k drains. It's because they put more demand on an oil that it is really a big problem for oil extentions. I'm not sure but I'll check but the real reason they were doing the 8yr campain is because they are a class act company and maybe feel there is some responsibility on their part but in business you don't accept blame because of the sue crazyness of today's world so the less claim to responsiblity the better, but in the basic publics eyes, they look like they aren't to blame but they are willing to help as a good will jesture.
They have been trying to stay up with the other manufactures for a less maintainance hassle free car and felt they could extend as everyone else. Problem is, they are not like everyone else. Notice that the sludge issue started to appear around mid 97's. This is approx a year after api moved from the API spec of SH to SJ lower zddp levels and many reformulations rely'd on the barrier additive to keep the stress of the base stock oil. Now with the new SL oils, they are hoping this will eliminate some of the problems that arose from the intial change over. These engines have not change basic mechanical design with the gears for a long time. Most changes have been with injection systems, and emmissions. As I investigated this problem , I found that no emmsissions problem was the cause and there was no evidence of clogged pcv's or hose problems. Fact is, they were not replaced but used on the rebuilt unit.
After studing many oil analysis's, it became apparent that the oil was being sheared down 1 grade in viscosity after 3k. Interesting note... Any engine that followed a 3k drain interval, did not have any sludge issues. Those that followed the 5-7500 mile recommendation did. I believe that they were going to reduce the drain intevals from 5-7500 to 3-5,000. That along with newer base stock oils, more resistant to sludging up would be to their benifet. That's why they are pushing hard on the oil suppliers as they know their design isn't the problem as the otc oils have a problem of sustaining the demand placed on it.
Too Slick,
Yes the supercharger on my Camry is a TRD unit (actually an Eaton blower with engineering provided by Magnuson). It's a nice clean installation that looks like it came from the factory and the warranty is not affected unless you install a smaller pulley on the blower and up the boost.
If you're thinking about aftermarket performance stuff for the 2.4L Tacoma engine, I assume that you're aware that TRD has a blower for that engine as well. And if you have the 2.4L, then you must have the 2WD Tacoma. One of those with the TRD blower would be a nice little surprise package!
MolaKule
Staff member
Regarding the Pecuniary site:
It seems Amsoil is still saying 25,000 mile OC's with 12,500 filter changes, but the interval charts shown only give "times" beyond normal service intervals.
Is this their way sliding out of the "hard" 25k blanket statement?
It seems Amsoil is still saying 25,000 mile OC's with 12,500 filter changes, but the interval charts shown only give "times" beyond normal service intervals.
Is this their way sliding out of the "hard" 25k blanket statement?
I think the chart posted (quick scan) is just the same standard Amsoil chart
When I asked Amsoil about the infamous Toyota sluge engines and extended drains - the guys said nope for this engine - because "not mechanically sound"....hmm...
Also FWIW I gave (yes gave) a fellow Volvo nut that bought an Avalon a can of Amsoil Engine flush (yeah I know Auto-Rx and Nuetra are better) - butt you should have seen the diahrea that came out the drain hole...lumpy and nasty...he was running Mobil 1 at 5-7K intervals and some dino before that.
When I asked Amsoil about the infamous Toyota sluge engines and extended drains - the guys said nope for this engine - because "not mechanically sound"....hmm...
Also FWIW I gave (yes gave) a fellow Volvo nut that bought an Avalon a can of Amsoil Engine flush (yeah I know Auto-Rx and Nuetra are better) - butt you should have seen the diahrea that came out the drain hole...lumpy and nasty...he was running Mobil 1 at 5-7K intervals and some dino before that.
Guys, i understand there has been a sludge problem, but i think it has been blown out of proportion. Legal issues have totally blown this up. I go to a Toyota forum and many owners with toyotas that have over 200K miles on them change the oil every 6K - 15K using Mobil 1 and never had a problem. Amsoil and Mobil 1 most likely will not sludge at all during these drain intervals. Couldn't be sure though bc I have yet to do analysis, so my case is weak. All a guesstimate.
The sludge was only in two models of engines, the model 1MZ 3 liter V6 and the model 5SFE 2.2 liter four, and only from 1997 on. Yes, that's a lot of engines, maybe 3.3 million, but there are millions of other Toyota engines that aren't subject to the problem.
Ken
Ken
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
