RPMs effect on Oil

Messages
33,974
Location
Southern NJ
I have a small 4cyl engine that at highway speeds of 75mph, pushes close to 3,000 rpms. Does this qualify as severe driving? I know city/stop and start driving is considered severe, but I'm concerned that Amsoil's 25K/35K drain intervals don't factor in a car that runs 90% of the time at 3,000 rpms or 75mph. If this is hard on the oil, maybe I will change it more often....thanks
 
Messages
421
Location
LUBBOCK, TX
Buster, I wouldn't let it go that far unless you are doing oil analysis. I don't know that I would classify the kind of driving your doing as severe. It would depend on other factors as dusty conditions and how much stop and go city traffic you do. Personally, I use Amsoil in the 5W-30 original synthetic formula. The 25,000 mile 1 year type. Even if I drove that many miles in a year I wouldn't let it go that far. About the longest I would want to go would be 15,000 miles with a midway filter change. I only drive about 5 to 6,000 miles a year now and I still do the 6 months filter change and change the oil on the yearly basis. Regards,
 

Al

Messages
19,162
Location
Elizabethtown, Pa
Based on my limited experience with oil analysis and experience of others. You should plan on a limit of 10K miles at first. I would suggest you change filters ar 5 to 6K miles and do an oil sample at this time. The sample should give you some idea about how much further you could go. 3K rpm with smaller stroke (lower piston speeds) is relatively easy on an engine. However there are some engines out there that are not so easy on oil.
 
Messages
1,902
Location
cali
without concidering an oil analysis i woould say off the top of my head that is fine. rollin at 3k at highway speeds should be normal...most cars shift at 3k on regular driving days from a stop and go perspective. now pushing 85 at 4k rpm is kinda pushing the car though...mine at 85mph pushes near 4k and about 70mph 2.8k rpm. but ur drain intervals should be shortend...that is a great oil but since u just changed over then u should take it easy and drain and fill it. then later on maybe u can go higher drain intervals. in my opinion i would do maybe 10k..but in my dino oil i got right now i know im sticking with 3 to 4k changes.
 
Messages
2,480
3k rpms...that's a joke. I think you're only into oil concerns when you're up in the 6,7, 8+k range. That's why no motorcycle calls for 5-30...unless you're riding in Alaska....however, I agreee with the others...don't go 35k on oil unless you're doing an oil analysis to confirm that this is an appropriate change interval...this is the only way to tell if you're particular engine is 'hard' on the oil.
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Buster, What specific engine is this and what oil filter are you using? If you are running 90% of the time on the highway, you can run the 0w-30 for a very long time. I ran some for 16,000 miles/1 yr in a 2.0L VW Jetta and it was still in excellent shape, with a TBN of 8.1.
 
Messages
1,874
Location
Ocala, Florida
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: Buster, If you are running 90% of the time on the highway, you can run the 0w-30 for a very long time. I ran some for 16,000 miles/1 yr in a 2.0L VW Jetta and it was still in excellent shape, with a TBN of 8.1.
TooSlick, we have seen way to much evidence to counter that comment, mind sharing the data as to what is excellent shape and all the details with us on the oil analysis section? I'd really like to see this cause quite frankly I have a hard time with that one, 16k with 8.1 tbn.
 
Messages
1,933
Location
Oklahoma
Buster, Oil brand aside as Al posted some engines are harder on oil than others. We have 3, 4 cylinder motors here,,all three are different in how hard on a oil they can be. You have two very simalar threads,,please pst you make and model car Bob, check your PM please Sir [Phone]
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
bob, I did this test in October of 1998, after driving back from California to Alabama. Miles were primarily highway driving @ 70-85 mph and I ran the same oil for an entire year. I'll post it in the analysis section .... TS
 

buster

Thread starter
Messages
33,974
Location
Southern NJ
2001 Toyota Corolla. 95,000 miles already using Mobil 1. I just ordered Amsoil's Series 2000 0w-30, but now I am having doubts whether it was worth it??
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Buster, The Series 2000, 0w-30 is probably Amsoils best stuff, along with their Series 3000 diesel oil....In fact, it's about 75% of what I sell for newer gas engines and I have lots of experience with it over the last seven years; in many different vehicles. The Amsoil oil filter is good for 12,500 miles, so I'd take an oil sample prior to changing the filter and wait for the results to come back before changing it. I'd suggest installing a Fumoto drain valve to make oil sampling easier: I have NO financial interest in this product, by the way, I just use them [Wink] If this engine is running well, I think that 15k-20k drain intervals are possible under 90% highway driving conditions. Most of the Toyota engines are nice and tight and don't contaminate the oil too much. Ted [ November 19, 2002, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
 
Messages
1,874
Location
Ocala, Florida
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: If this engine is running well, I think that 15k-20k drain intervals are possible under 90% highway driving conditions. Most of the Toyota engines are nice and tight and don't contaminate the oil too much. Ted
Quite frankly buster, I don't think your going to benifet any more with amsoil than you are doing with mobil . Toyota engines don't contaminate engines much but it will destroy an oil and I would not even consider running an oil in a toyota or lexus engine without doing oil analysis if I'm using a good oil past 5,000 miles. Any standard grade oil such as bulk tank penz or castrol, don't pass 3500 miles as they will shear back from a 30wt to a 20wt in less than 4,000 miles. A good base oil like amsoil/mobil/schaeffers will handle 5k no problem but past that, I'd recommend oil analysis to verify how much farther you can go.
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY: [QUOTE] Toyota engines don't contaminate engines much but it will destroy an oil and I would not even consider running an oil in a toyota or lexus engine without doing oil analysis if I'm using a good oil past 5,000 miles.
What is it about Toyota engines that make them so hard on oil? (I've never heard this before.) In fact, what design factors of any modern engine would make it more prone to shear oil than any other engine? (Flat lifters on pushrod engines used to be an issue, and Detroit went with roller lifters. But all Toyota engines are OHC.)
 
Messages
1,874
Location
Ocala, Florida
in a nut shell, gears. There is no other engine that uses gears like this in the oil over and above the normal gears in oil pumps. There is a gear in the 4cyls that is a counter wt gear to keep the engine running smooth located on the bottom of the engine and the others are on top.
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,597
Location
Iowegia - USA
Buster, Go ahead and run the Amsoil thru the winter; IMHO, I don't think Amsoil has any benefits over Mobil 1, as per personal tests with three vehicles. You might also want to try the Schaeffer's blends if you're seeking a lower-cost alternative. XHVI, In addition to "Gear-shear" they have small sump capacity and low volume oil pumps.
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,597
Location
Iowegia - USA
TooSlick, I think you misread some items: "If the vehicle manufacturer recommends drain intervals of 7500 miles/1 year under "normal conditions" - as does Toyota - then you should be able to run even an average quality, "SL" rated petroleum oil this long. I would certainly consider 90% highway driving @ 75 mph to be almost ideal in terms of oil degradation, wouldn't you?" Mola: First of all, I didn't say that you couldn't run over 3.5k, I only stated that oil analysis should take place at 3.5k and not later in order to avoid oil related suprises. I do not agree you can run an oil this long simply because it is "spected" to do so. I consider field tests and endurance runs to be indicitive of service, not just engineering data alone. It takes engineering data AND field tests to work out bugs. "Toyota has been pushing to get the even better, GF-4 oils on the market ASAP, according to Lubricants World magazine. Why do you think that is?" Mola: I think it is because Toyota, as well as other vehicle makers, wants to extend drain intervals, reduce maintenance cost, and get as much CAFE as possible out of their engines. "If you can't run this 7500 drain interval under ideal conditions, then the engine design is defective - period. That is why Toyota has agreed to settle this issue out of court and extend the warranty on these 3.3 million affected engines to 8 years with unlimited mileage - provided you can show the oil has been changed at least every 7500 miles." Mola: No, I think Toyota screwed-up in a number of areas rushing to advertise this engine as their highest power density V-6 widget, just as Amsoil screwed-up with their XL7500 formulations. Had Toyota tested their engines and oil past 7k this problem would have reared its ugly head. Had Amsoil tested their their claims in this V-6, they would have not kept up their 25k prayer meetin's. The owner took Amsoil at heart, believing that the oil would go 25k miles. As I have stated in other posts, I believe both Amsoil and Toyota should have shared the costs of engine replacement in this specific case. "I would not be surprised to see Nissan go the same route on their 2.4L if they start having oil related engine failures. Designing a pickup truck engine that is used to carry heavy loads this way is simply poor engineering. Of all people, you should certainly understand that .... " Mola: The oil companies, including the specialty blenders, should have realized long ago that engine power densities have gone way up past some of their oil's capabilities and not guaranty oils that cannot be expected to perform past 7k in these environments. As a matter of fact, Nisssan recommends 3.7k oil changes for the Frontier. BTW, NISSAN DID NOT SAY THAT AMSOIL IS AN EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE. [ November 19, 2002, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Molekule, I suspect you will see Amsoil come out with revised change interval recommendations. They have already shorted their recommended drain intervals for other applications, such as motorcycles. Hopefully then, we can find something else to talk about [Wink] Toyota should have caught this V-6 problem during early development testing. I would expect any vehicle manufacturer to add a margin of safety to their oil change interval recommendations of perhaps 25% past their maximum recommended drain interval, just so they don't run into these kinds of issues. Are you saying that 3750 miles is the maximum drain interval recommended by Nissan for this engine, or is it the "severe service" recommendation? I suspect it is the latter .... TS
 
Messages
183
Location
Northern New Hampshire
As the owner of a Camry with the 1MZ-FE engine, I have to ask this rhetorical question. If I used Amsoil and changed my oil every 7500 miles and had an engine failure due to sludge, who do you think would pay to replace my engine? Amsoil or Toyota? I'm sure that Amsoil makes a fine product, however using Amsoil would cost me double what I pay for 5-quart jugs of Mobil 1. Somehow I doubt that Amsoil would give me twice as good results, especially since "extended" drains are pretty much a moot point with my engine based on what I've learned thus far.
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
2533, It's simply not going to happen, provided the engine isn't grossly out of adjustment....If the engine is already sludged up, I'd run some AutoRX or amsoil engine flush in there before going to a 7500 mile change interval. I've done some limited testing @ 7500 miles and you have a 2000-3000 mile margin, even in short trip driving. I expect engines run under primarily highway driving will do even better and may allow 10k-12k drain intervals w/ Amsoil. When I generate some more test data on those, I'll be sure to post it. I would recommend running a PAO/Ester synthetic in these engines, and Mobil 1 10w-30 or 5w-30 would be the other oil I'd highly recommend. I haven't seen any data on Redline Oil in this engine, but I understand that Terry Dyson is generating some numbers. I'll be interested in seeing those ....
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
2533a, That reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask you .... I see you have a supercharger installed on your toyota V-6. Is this the one from Toyota Racing Developement that maintains the factory warranty when dealer installed? I've been looking at some aftermarket performance stuff for the 2.4L, four cylinder pickup engine .... thanks, TS
 
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