Rotella T6 5w40 in my '03 540i and '88 325i???

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Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Im just looking for a good reason NOT to run the T6, one that is substantiated with facts and hard numbers. So far, nobody has been able to provide that.

And I'm afraid you will not find it. T6 hasn't been run against the battery of tests that the LL01 spec requires, and until it is, we will all just be guessing here. OVERKILL is just recommending staying away from it to eliminate the guessing game, especially that you're not saving any money by running T6 vs. M1 0W-40.
 
Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Anyways, my point is that I don't think the BMW 5w-30 is a bad oil. But I don't think it is necessarily a great oil either. There are better choices like M1 0w-40, PU 5w-40....etc that carry the BMW endorsement.


As I stated earlier, those oils no longer carry the BMW endorsement. I say again, the only oil endorsed by BMW is BMW 5w30, except for M cars where a Castrol oil is on the list.

If you're referring to the marketing-driven text on BMWUSA's website, then it can be misleading. It's been crafted in a way to scare the customer into only using BMW 5w-30 oil. In reality, any oil meeting the LL-01 spec can be used, and this includes oils such as M1 0w-40, PU 5w-40, Castrol 0w-30, Castrol 0w-40, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Im just looking for a good reason NOT to run the T6, one that is substantiated with facts and hard numbers. So far, nobody has been able to provide that.

And I'm afraid you will not find it. T6 hasn't been run against the battery of tests that the LL01 spec requires, and until it is, we will all just be guessing here. OVERKILL is just recommending staying away from it to eliminate the guessing game, especially that you're not saving any money by running T6 vs. M1 0W-40.



Thank you for that Pete. Yeah recommendations arent hard to find; I started the thread to solicit quantifiable reasons why I couldnt run it. So the tests that go into the LL01 spec, I assume, are more than an oil analysis would show, correct?
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Anyways, my point is that I don't think the BMW 5w-30 is a bad oil. But I don't think it is necessarily a great oil either. There are better choices like M1 0w-40, PU 5w-40....etc that carry the BMW endorsement.


As I stated earlier, those oils no longer carry the BMW endorsement. I say again, the only oil endorsed by BMW is BMW 5w30, except for M cars where a Castrol oil is on the list.

If you're referring to the marketing-driven text on BMWUSA's website, then it can be misleading. It's been crafted in a way to scare the customer into only using BMW 5w-30 oil. In reality, any oil meeting the LL-01 spec can be used, and this includes oils such as M1 0w-40, PU 5w-40, Castrol 0w-30, Castrol 0w-40, etc.


updated BMW approved oils

For non-M vehicles, they dont even say anything about LL01, they just say "we recommend BMW 5W30", and thats it.
 
Originally Posted By: StuDawg


Ok, let me say again, the table next to the graph shows that LL01 has a HTHS number greater than 3.5; T6 HTHS number is around 4.

The table next to the graph also shows that LL01 has a sulfated ash number of below 1.5. T6's is 1.

I didnt get T6s numbers from the graph or the table.



Those two facts (the minimum HTHS of LL-01, which is the same as the ACEA specification it is based off of) and that there is a sulfated ash limit by themselves certainly wouldn't be my basis for determining if an oil is suitable for an application or not. A conventional 20w-50 would qualify here as well if those are the only criteria you are going by.....

The important part is the spider graph showing how much more stringent LL-01 is vs GF-5 and API SN. Since none of the specs T6 carries are PCMO specs except for the basic API one, we can't contrast any of them to LL-01 using that tool.
 
Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Anyways, my point is that I don't think the BMW 5w-30 is a bad oil. But I don't think it is necessarily a great oil either. There are better choices like M1 0w-40, PU 5w-40....etc that carry the BMW endorsement.


As I stated earlier, those oils no longer carry the BMW endorsement. I say again, the only oil endorsed by BMW is BMW 5w30, except for M cars where a Castrol oil is on the list.


Weird, as I'm staring at a bottle of M1 0w-40 right now that states BMW LL-01 on it. Hold on, let me pick up a bottle of PU 5w-40.... Yep, same thing!

BMW's verbiage as to the oil recommendation on their website has changed. That doesn't mean they are not approving 3rd party oils. They cannot, by law, require you to use THEIR brand of oil. They CAN however, require you to use an oil that has passed their approval process and that's what LL-01 is all about.
 
Originally Posted By: StuDawg

On the contrary my friend, Im just looking for a good reason NOT to run the T6, one that is substantiated with facts and hard numbers. So far, nobody has been able to provide that.


If the OEM approval process isn't enough in the way of facts for you then I'm afraid you aren't going to get what you are looking for. Nobody here is going to run T6 against the LL-01 validation protocol for you, nor are they going to do extensive tear-down testing to confirm the product's performance against an LL-01 reference oil.
 
Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Anyways, my point is that I don't think the BMW 5w-30 is a bad oil. But I don't think it is necessarily a great oil either. There are better choices like M1 0w-40, PU 5w-40....etc that carry the BMW endorsement.


As I stated earlier, those oils no longer carry the BMW endorsement. I say again, the only oil endorsed by BMW is BMW 5w30, except for M cars where a Castrol oil is on the list.

If you're referring to the marketing-driven text on BMWUSA's website, then it can be misleading. It's been crafted in a way to scare the customer into only using BMW 5w-30 oil. In reality, any oil meeting the LL-01 spec can be used, and this includes oils such as M1 0w-40, PU 5w-40, Castrol 0w-30, Castrol 0w-40, etc.


updated BMW approved oils

For non-M vehicles, they dont even say anything about LL01, they just say "we recommend BMW 5W30", and thats it.


It is just how they word it:

Originally Posted By: BMW USA
BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil is recommended for scheduled engine oil changes.


Note they are saying RECOMMENDED, not REQUIRED
wink.gif


As QP noted, the intention is to scare the consumer into using BMW's branded lubricant.


Also, you might find this funny (or maybe not) but the US market is the only one that BMW went back on their recommendation for LL-01 lubricants in the S62 post 03/00. Canada, Germany....etc all still call for LL-01 oils in this engine, whilst the USA calls for TWS 10w-60, LOL!

The other BMW global sites have different verbiage:

http://www.bmw.ie/ie/en/owners/maintenance/Oil.html

Quote:
The Castrol 0W-30 lubricant offers a 1% fuel saving due to its low friction qualities. It also reduces emissions, prolongs catalyst and diesel particulate filter life and increases wear protection. This is the oil that is in the car when it leaves the factory. In short it helps to deliver the Efficient Dynamics package in full.

BMW Service Authorised Workshops only use oils that meet BMW requirements thereby ensuring extended service intervals and the continued benefits of BMW Efficient Dynamics.


smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: StuDawg
On the contrary my friend, Im just looking for a good reason NOT to run the T6, one that is substantiated with facts and hard numbers. So far, nobody has been able to provide that.

The only hard number or fact we can provide is LL01.
wink.gif
 
So I called Shell earlier this week. Spoke to a rep who said he was a chemist by trade. He said he couldnt recommend the T6 for my 03 BMW, for the 88, yes but not for the 03. He said it had never been tested against LL01 and didnt think it would happen anytime soon. (I am really curious though and would love to know how it measured up.) I asked him what if I ran it for 3k then tested it, he said he still couldnt recommend it. He couldnt really elaborate as to why, that he was not involved in "formulation". Anyway, at this point, Im just gonna run the M1 0W40 and sleep well at night. Guess Im just not man enough! thanks for the responses
 
OTOH that advice you got from the Shell rep is worthless. What the heck is a "chemist by trade"? I have a minor in inorganic chemistry and I'm not a "chemist". What did he do?

I'm a brain surgeon by trade.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: StuDawg
he said he still couldnt recommend it.


Liability.



This. If the vehicle requires a specific fluid (LL-01 in this case) he's not going to open Shell up to the potential liability of the extremely slim chance that there WAS an issue by going against the manufacturers recommendations.
 
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