Rotella T6 5w40 in my '03 540i and '88 325i???

[StuDawg]

I have been running it in my '02 7.3L diesel for 60k miles with excellent results I started this thread in the heavy duty oil section and got some responses but wanted to make sure I put it in here, too. I have done a good bit of research on this. It would make my life easier if I could use one oil for all three vehicles, and I have about decided to do so. It looks to have enough zinc/phosphorous/zddp for the flat tappets in the 325i/M20 and is pretty close in viscosity to the BMW recommendation for the M62TU, (5w30) or M1 recommendation for it (0w40). I plan to determine the oil change interval by analyses, start with 3k changes. If anyone has reasons why they would not run the oil in either the 88 325i/ M20 or the 03 540i/M62TU, please tell me why and explain. Thank you!

 

[brandini]

If you're sticking with the UOA regimen you should be good. See if you can find any specific BMW specs for the 2003 like LL-01 or LL-04 and maybe a minimum HTHS number to shoot for. Odds are you'll be in the clear but it's mostly a CYA measure since those cars are some great ones you'd want to keep as long as possible.

 

[StuDawg]

Thx brandini; BMW calls for LL01 in the 03, but from what ive gathered, LL01 really just pertains to how long it will last. T6 isnt LL01 which is why I will test it in-between changes to see how long to run it. As far as HTHS, are you saying that BMW might give a recommended minimum number, and I could look at a VOA to see what that number is for a given oil?

 

[Garak]

As you mention, there are specification issues with the 2003. In the 1988, I'd use it no questions asked. In fact, it might be one of my first choices. You guys do get M1 0w-40 rather cheap down there, though.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Thx brandini; BMW calls for LL01 in the 03, but from what ive gathered, LL01 really just pertains to how long it will last. T6 isnt LL01 which is why I will test it in-between changes to see how long to run it. As far as HTHS, are you saying that BMW might give a recommended minimum number, and I could look at a VOA to see what that number is for a given oil?


No, LL-01 isn't just about long life:

This is what LL-01 is in terms of it being above and beyond the basic API and ILSAC specs.

 

[KenO]

Didn't you already make this thread once? Yes, T6 will run great in both of those applications.

 

[StuDawg]

T6 meets those HTHS and SA numbers and is SM rated. SL is what was current in 03, are there any specs of LL01 that T6 does NOT meet?

 

[StuDawg]

Originally Posted By: KenO
Didn't you already make this thread once? Yes, T6 will run great in both of those applications.


Yeah but I started it in the HDEO section, as mentioned, sorry for the redundancy, just trying to be thorough. I keep getting mixed messages.

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Originally Posted By: KenO
Didn't you already make this thread once? Yes, T6 will run great in both of those applications.


Yeah but I started it in the HDEO section, as mentioned, sorry for the redundancy, just trying to be thorough. I keep getting mixed messages.


Ahh, thats right, my bad. I challenge anybody thats stating to NOT use T6 in either application to show evidence where it could be harmful. I don't believe there is any.

 

[StuDawg]

I think you're right, after all, it is coming from someone who has a European wagon, a 3 series BMW, and a 3/4 ton truck, exactly like my fleet!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StuDawg
T6 meets those HTHS and SA numbers and is SM rated. SL is what was current in 03, are there any specs of LL01 that T6 does NOT meet?


T6 is heavier, and since it is a diesel oil, you can't compare it to the proper Euro specs on the Lubrizol Relative Comparison tool unfortunately.

SN is far more stringent than either SM or SL (I welcome you to use the tool and compare, it is very straightforward). That said, the API ratings aren't what are important, it is how much further, above and beyond them, LL-01 is. And that is significant.

Because T6 isn't certified against LL-01, we have no idea if it will meet all the performance requirements of it, which is why I advise you to just run an approved oil and eliminate the "what if's".

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Originally Posted By: KenO
Didn't you already make this thread once? Yes, T6 will run great in both of those applications.


Yeah but I started it in the HDEO section, as mentioned, sorry for the redundancy, just trying to be thorough. I keep getting mixed messages.


Ahh, thats right, my bad. I challenge anybody thats stating to NOT use T6 in either application to show evidence where it could be harmful. I don't believe there is any.


I don't think it will likely be harmful. But it is heavier than the spec'd oil and even Doug, who probably has more HDEO experience than everybody else on this board combined is saying to use the 0w-40. I think that's significant.

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: StuDawg
I think you're right, after all, it is coming from someone who has a European wagon, a 3 series BMW, and a 3/4 ton truck, exactly like my fleet!



Bear in mind, my 'Euro wagon' is LS swapped

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Because T6 isn't certified against LL-01, we have no idea if it will meet all the performance requirements of it, which is why I advise you to just run an approved oil and eliminate the "what if's".

Agreed. First and foremost, give the engines what they need, not what will make your life easier. Anyway, both T6 and M1 0w-40 are typically next to each other on the same shelf at Walmart and priced about the same, so I don't see what the difficulty is.

With that said, I wouldn't expect the T6 to blow up his 540i.

 

[StuDawg]

-T6 isnt really a "diesel" oil, is it? It is considered a HD oil, rated for both diesel and gas engines.

-What are the extra requirements it takes to make an oil meet LL01? Can we not compare an SL or SM or SN oil to an LL01 oil? And then considering T6 is SM rated, makes some conclusions from that?

-BMW no longer lists any oil other than BMW 5w-30 as being "approved" for any BMW except for M vehicles wher they list 1 Castrol oil. So going by what is "approved" I have no choice at all.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: StuDawg
Can we not compare an SL or SM or SN oil to an LL01 oil? And then considering T6 is SM rated, makes some conclusions from that?


Didn't OVERKILL already do this for you above? API SL/SM/SN are fairly weak specs compared to most Euro specs such as BMW LL-01, as you can see.

The baseline for LL-01 spec is ACEA A3/B4, but then there are some additional BMW engine specific tests that are performed on top of that.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I don't think it will likely be harmful. But it is heavier than the spec'd oil and even Doug, who probably has more HDEO experience than everybody else on this board combined is saying to use the 0w-40. I think that's significant.

And, considering how cheaply M1 0w-40 can be had down there, that makes it an easier choice. It's not like the Rotella is half the price of the M1.

@StuDawg: As others have indicated, it is a bit hard to compare. You're right; the Rotella is not a diesel-only oil. It's ACEA specifications will be of the E series, rather than the A and B series, which makes it harder to compare.

Rotella will probably have lower SA than M1 0w-40, slightly lower TBN (assuming Rotella is around 10), similar zinc, and slightly higher viscosity, and likely a lower viscosity index.

The SL/SM/SN thing isn't completely relevant here. All that tells you is that you could use it on a vehicle that called for 5w-40 in, say, SM or older. Something like Rotella or M1 0w-40 carry an API gasoline rating in spite of their major target market, not to satisfy their major target market. Guys using Rotella are usually looking at the CJ-4. Guys using M1 0w-40 are usually looking at the LL01, MB, and VW/Audi specifications.

 

[fdcg27]

This is a good point.
If you can use an oil that meets BMW's recommended specs for the same money as one that doesn't, then why wouldn't you?
If there are no cost savings involved in using T6 instead of M1 0W-40, and there aren't, then why bother?
Walmart will sell you all the M1 0W-40 you want for twenty five bucks a jug, or you can buy smaller jugs of T6 for around twenty bucks.
Use T6 in those BMWs if you want to.
It certainly won't cause any harm.
For the same money, I'd use the M1 myself.

 

[KenO]

Where did all of the T6 hate come from for the BMW engines? M50/S52's call for LL-01 as well, don't they? There's absolutely no way in [censored] you'd catch me dead running ANY 5W-30 oil in a BMW, LL-01 or not. We've run T6 for years and years in LOTS of NA & turbo'd track cars. I've never, ever seen or heard of an oil related failure on any of them, and road course racing is probably one of the highest levels of abuse on these engines in this part of the US, especially when they oil starve in high-G cornering!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KenO
Where did all of the T6 hate come from for the BMW engines? M50/S52's call for LL-01 as well, don't they? There's absolutely no way in [censored] you'd catch me dead running ANY 5W-30 oil in a BMW, LL-01 or not. We've run T6 for years and years in LOTS of NA & turbo'd track cars. I've never, ever seen or heard of an oil related failure on any of them, and road course racing is probably one of the highest levels of abuse on these engines in this part of the US, especially when they oil starve in high-G cornering!


Hold your pants on, nobody is "hating" on T6, they are simply saying that M1 0w-40 is more appropriate for an LL-01 application. That doesn't equate to hatred of the non-approved product.

Your point about 5w-30 doesn't really make sense to me though. The LL-01 5w-30 lubricants all have an HTHS >=3.5cP, which puts them in basically the same league as the 40-weights here. Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 has the same HTHS as M1 0w-40 at 3.8cP, which isn't a whole heck of a lot higher than the minimum for the Euro specs of 3.5cP, and if D1 is similar, you can bet your pants that T6 is as well, since it and D1 have the same target market and meet most of the same performance requirements and carry the same approvals.

And I'm sorry but your anecdotes about lack of failure with T6 don't mean that it is a better choice here. Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Audi....etc I'm sure do far, FAR more track engine testing than any of us and when validating approved lubricants, they've probably done more of it in the last year than the cumulation of everybody on here has participated in during their lifetimes.

Again, I'm not saying T6 is in any way a bad lubricant. But I fail to see any compelling reason to use it over the readily available approved lubricant for this application.

Oh, and no, both of those engines (M50/S52) pre-date LL-01. It was the M52TU that would have spec'd it.