0w-20 oils are readily available in Europe but none of car manufacturers recommend them AFAIK. Buy you guys drive slow so 20 weight is good enough for you
Rotella T6 5w-40/Dart/Texas Heat
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Originally Posted By: wsar10
.....an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more. You could run MMO for motor oil to get through a warranty period !!
This is not true. The design life of an automobile is not the warranty but much longer. However, it may be designed to have a minimal warranty cost to the manufacturer. Of course the engineers have a lot of restraints in terms of design - cost, weight, dimensions, etc. So what.
.....an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more. You could run MMO for motor oil to get through a warranty period !!
This is not true. The design life of an automobile is not the warranty but much longer. However, it may be designed to have a minimal warranty cost to the manufacturer. Of course the engineers have a lot of restraints in terms of design - cost, weight, dimensions, etc. So what.
Forgive me for not reading through all the bickering in this thread, but here's what I've learned here on BITOG, other websites, and through personal experience.
Even in engines that use 20 grade oils:
1. Most vehicles reach the end of their useful life not due to engine failure, but due to some other mechanical failure, an accident, or they simply get beat up and rusty, and aren't worth fixing.
2. Most engine failures are not oil related.
3. Any engine failures that are oil related are typically due to a lack of oil, not because of the grade of oil being used.
Even in engines that use 20 grade oils:
1. Most vehicles reach the end of their useful life not due to engine failure, but due to some other mechanical failure, an accident, or they simply get beat up and rusty, and aren't worth fixing.
2. Most engine failures are not oil related.
3. Any engine failures that are oil related are typically due to a lack of oil, not because of the grade of oil being used.
Originally Posted By: wsar10
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more.
I'm really glad I you didn't tell anyone that about my cars. And I've been running 5W-20 in my 1MZ-FE since 200,000 miles, and 0W-20 in my 1NZ-FE since about 125,000.
You keep making stuff up to try and prove a point which has no merit.
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more.
I'm really glad I you didn't tell anyone that about my cars. And I've been running 5W-20 in my 1MZ-FE since 200,000 miles, and 0W-20 in my 1NZ-FE since about 125,000.
You keep making stuff up to try and prove a point which has no merit.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: wsar10
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more.
I'm really glad I you didn't tell anyone that about my cars. And I've been running 5W-20 in my 1MZ-FE since 200,000 miles, and 0W-20 in my 1NZ-FE since about 125,000.
You keep making stuff up to try and prove a point which has no merit.
No speakee Toyota engine codee...!
But congrats on the mileage...!
Realistically, the vast majority of engines NEED fresh , quality oil to live a long life... 20, 30,40 or 50 grade is of little consequence to MOST engines in MOST conditions...
Yes, there are exceptions... hence the bold MOST...!
Originally Posted By: wsar10
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more.
I'm really glad I you didn't tell anyone that about my cars. And I've been running 5W-20 in my 1MZ-FE since 200,000 miles, and 0W-20 in my 1NZ-FE since about 125,000.
You keep making stuff up to try and prove a point which has no merit.
No speakee Toyota engine codee...!
But congrats on the mileage...!
Realistically, the vast majority of engines NEED fresh , quality oil to live a long life... 20, 30,40 or 50 grade is of little consequence to MOST engines in MOST conditions...
Yes, there are exceptions... hence the bold MOST...!
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Originally Posted By: wsar10
I hate giving AAP and Az any business, with there junk parts and overpriced oil !
AMEN to that one! On top of that,all the parts chains here all have faded,ancient,leaky bottles of oil. Their oil filters are also in ancient,faded,crushed,and cut up boxes too,and caked with dirt/dust. Walmart always has the freshest stock. Are you able to do the site to store thing on Walmart.com?
I hate giving AAP and Az any business, with there junk parts and overpriced oil !
AMEN to that one! On top of that,all the parts chains here all have faded,ancient,leaky bottles of oil. Their oil filters are also in ancient,faded,crushed,and cut up boxes too,and caked with dirt/dust. Walmart always has the freshest stock. Are you able to do the site to store thing on Walmart.com?
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Manufacturers would not specify thicker oil in other places if they don't see some benefits from doing that.
What's the benefit to the ridiculously thick oils allowed under certain circumstances, or monogrades? Here's a hint - little or none.
Before you dismiss regional buying preferences, you should have looked at a North American oil shelf ten years ago, twenty years ago, and thirty years ago. Aside from HDEOs and powersport oils, forty grades have always been relatively uncommon, at least in comparison to thirty grades. The "average" oil on the shelf (especially in places that had limited space) tended to be a 10w-30, then a 5w-30, which still commands a lot of shelf space. Now, the 20s are gaining a lot of traction.
As an aside, Caterham would be interested to note that Canadian Tire is discontinuing more 10w-30 synthetics, including their own Formula 1 synthetic.
Manufacturers would not specify thicker oil in other places if they don't see some benefits from doing that.
What's the benefit to the ridiculously thick oils allowed under certain circumstances, or monogrades? Here's a hint - little or none.
Before you dismiss regional buying preferences, you should have looked at a North American oil shelf ten years ago, twenty years ago, and thirty years ago. Aside from HDEOs and powersport oils, forty grades have always been relatively uncommon, at least in comparison to thirty grades. The "average" oil on the shelf (especially in places that had limited space) tended to be a 10w-30, then a 5w-30, which still commands a lot of shelf space. Now, the 20s are gaining a lot of traction.
As an aside, Caterham would be interested to note that Canadian Tire is discontinuing more 10w-30 synthetics, including their own Formula 1 synthetic.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: wsar10
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more.
I'm really glad I you didn't tell anyone that about my cars. And I've been running 5W-20 in my 1MZ-FE since 200,000 miles, and 0W-20 in my 1NZ-FE since about 125,000.
You keep making stuff up to try and prove a point which has no merit.
Or your just simply to dense to understand the point !!
your evidence is "I switched to a lighter oil after the motor was half shot", your foolish for multiple reasons in regard to that choice......
Originally Posted By: wsar10
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more.
I'm really glad I you didn't tell anyone that about my cars. And I've been running 5W-20 in my 1MZ-FE since 200,000 miles, and 0W-20 in my 1NZ-FE since about 125,000.
You keep making stuff up to try and prove a point which has no merit.
Or your just simply to dense to understand the point !!
your evidence is "I switched to a lighter oil after the motor was half shot", your foolish for multiple reasons in regard to that choice......
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: wsar10
I hate giving AAP and Az any business, with there junk parts and overpriced oil !
AMEN to that one! On top of that,all the parts chains here all have faded,ancient,leaky bottles of oil. Their oil filters are also in ancient,faded,crushed,and cut up boxes too,and caked with dirt/dust. Walmart always has the freshest stock. Are you able to do the site to store thing on Walmart.com?
I can, yes....
[censored] thats a GREAT idea that I never considered for oil at WM ! I wonder if WM has the 0-40 Rotella T6......
Originally Posted By: wsar10
I hate giving AAP and Az any business, with there junk parts and overpriced oil !
AMEN to that one! On top of that,all the parts chains here all have faded,ancient,leaky bottles of oil. Their oil filters are also in ancient,faded,crushed,and cut up boxes too,and caked with dirt/dust. Walmart always has the freshest stock. Are you able to do the site to store thing on Walmart.com?
I can, yes....
[censored] thats a GREAT idea that I never considered for oil at WM ! I wonder if WM has the 0-40 Rotella T6......
Originally Posted By: wsar10
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
It IS CAFE. Some here just can't bring themselves to admit to the truth. Quit trying to fool yourselves into thinking that CAFE isn't really the driver to thinner and thinner oils. Industry literature openly speaks of it. Why invent a 0-16 anyways? Thats the next oil, BTW. Think about that...Why?...CAFE, period.
I have no doubt that the engineers who did design the cars actually run 5-30 and 10-30 in them, but would not openly admit it.
Back to the OP question, 5-40 will not harm your car, especially in the TX climate. Don't listen to the hysterical and uninformed here.
You don't know beans about what the engineers that designed these engines run in their personal cars, so stop making stuff up.
That may be a fair statement...but I can tell you from personal knowledge that not one mechanical engineer on my team at work is using a 20wt oil where its spec'd, one guy has a few 4.6V8 Fords he runs 0-40, another guy with a Mazda(crossover not sure of model) runs 0-30 IIRC they both spec 5-20. As I mentioned before we are forced to make decisions on every project based on "big brother guidelines" (FCC in my case)that could have an effect on our products.
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more. You could run MMO for motor oil to get through a warranty period !!
Are those mechanical engineers designing production engines for automobiles? If not, then they don't really know, do they? I must have missed class the day they taught oil selection for automotive engines in engineering school.
If you're not working in the automotive industry, then you don't know what an automotive engineer's job is. I've never been asked to design to a price point.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
It IS CAFE. Some here just can't bring themselves to admit to the truth. Quit trying to fool yourselves into thinking that CAFE isn't really the driver to thinner and thinner oils. Industry literature openly speaks of it. Why invent a 0-16 anyways? Thats the next oil, BTW. Think about that...Why?...CAFE, period.
I have no doubt that the engineers who did design the cars actually run 5-30 and 10-30 in them, but would not openly admit it.
Back to the OP question, 5-40 will not harm your car, especially in the TX climate. Don't listen to the hysterical and uninformed here.
You don't know beans about what the engineers that designed these engines run in their personal cars, so stop making stuff up.
That may be a fair statement...but I can tell you from personal knowledge that not one mechanical engineer on my team at work is using a 20wt oil where its spec'd, one guy has a few 4.6V8 Fords he runs 0-40, another guy with a Mazda(crossover not sure of model) runs 0-30 IIRC they both spec 5-20. As I mentioned before we are forced to make decisions on every project based on "big brother guidelines" (FCC in my case)that could have an effect on our products.
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more. You could run MMO for motor oil to get through a warranty period !!
Are those mechanical engineers designing production engines for automobiles? If not, then they don't really know, do they? I must have missed class the day they taught oil selection for automotive engines in engineering school.
If you're not working in the automotive industry, then you don't know what an automotive engineer's job is. I've never been asked to design to a price point.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Rather than feeling, I know what the manufacturer tested against and what they specify. No feelings required - only reading the owner's manual. And show me where engines are failing just past warranty. That's a merit-less argument based on no facts whatsoever.
Running the recommended 5W-30 in a WRX. Oil changed every 3k miles.
Quote:
Sure enough, it would start knocking once I went above 2-2.5k RPM. I took it to a few friends who like me could hear the sound was pretty deep inside. We guessed rod bearings, and sure enough the local Subaru dealer confirmed today that the rod bearings were coming apart, and it would be $5,587.02 to replace the short block assy.
I am 90 days outside the 5 year/60k powertrain warranty. It seems unique that this is happening on a motor that was just barely broken in (I drive this car very conservatively...also no mods, all stock...almost paid off and had plans to start modding this summer or wait and buy a 2015).
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2610871
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2611627
Lots more posts like this on various Subaru enthusiast forums.
-Dennis
Rather than feeling, I know what the manufacturer tested against and what they specify. No feelings required - only reading the owner's manual. And show me where engines are failing just past warranty. That's a merit-less argument based on no facts whatsoever.
Running the recommended 5W-30 in a WRX. Oil changed every 3k miles.
Quote:
Sure enough, it would start knocking once I went above 2-2.5k RPM. I took it to a few friends who like me could hear the sound was pretty deep inside. We guessed rod bearings, and sure enough the local Subaru dealer confirmed today that the rod bearings were coming apart, and it would be $5,587.02 to replace the short block assy.
I am 90 days outside the 5 year/60k powertrain warranty. It seems unique that this is happening on a motor that was just barely broken in (I drive this car very conservatively...also no mods, all stock...almost paid off and had plans to start modding this summer or wait and buy a 2015).
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2610871
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2611627
Lots more posts like this on various Subaru enthusiast forums.
-Dennis
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: wsar10
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
It IS CAFE. Some here just can't bring themselves to admit to the truth. Quit trying to fool yourselves into thinking that CAFE isn't really the driver to thinner and thinner oils. Industry literature openly speaks of it. Why invent a 0-16 anyways? Thats the next oil, BTW. Think about that...Why?...CAFE, period.
I have no doubt that the engineers who did design the cars actually run 5-30 and 10-30 in them, but would not openly admit it.
Back to the OP question, 5-40 will not harm your car, especially in the TX climate. Don't listen to the hysterical and uninformed here.
You don't know beans about what the engineers that designed these engines run in their personal cars, so stop making stuff up.
That may be a fair statement...but I can tell you from personal knowledge that not one mechanical engineer on my team at work is using a 20wt oil where its spec'd, one guy has a few 4.6V8 Fords he runs 0-40, another guy with a Mazda(crossover not sure of model) runs 0-30 IIRC they both spec 5-20. As I mentioned before we are forced to make decisions on every project based on "big brother guidelines" (FCC in my case)that could have an effect on our products.
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more. You could run MMO for motor oil to get through a warranty period !!
Are those mechanical engineers designing production engines for automobiles? If not, then they don't really know, do they? I must have missed class the day they taught oil selection for automotive engines in engineering school.
If you're not working in the automotive industry, then you don't know what an automotive engineer's job is. I've never been asked to design to a price point.
IF that is the case....I should not really have to explain to you the basis of retail/production costs equating to a price point to meet a specific tier of product (in this case model of vehicle and trim).
Based on your theory; "I am an electronics engineer and you are not, therefore You cant possibly understand the function of (lets say) an Oscilloscope !"
My point: physics are linear all across the board.... Laws of science do not change weather your designing a rotary switch or automotive engine.
Originally Posted By: wsar10
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
It IS CAFE. Some here just can't bring themselves to admit to the truth. Quit trying to fool yourselves into thinking that CAFE isn't really the driver to thinner and thinner oils. Industry literature openly speaks of it. Why invent a 0-16 anyways? Thats the next oil, BTW. Think about that...Why?...CAFE, period.
I have no doubt that the engineers who did design the cars actually run 5-30 and 10-30 in them, but would not openly admit it.
Back to the OP question, 5-40 will not harm your car, especially in the TX climate. Don't listen to the hysterical and uninformed here.
You don't know beans about what the engineers that designed these engines run in their personal cars, so stop making stuff up.
That may be a fair statement...but I can tell you from personal knowledge that not one mechanical engineer on my team at work is using a 20wt oil where its spec'd, one guy has a few 4.6V8 Fords he runs 0-40, another guy with a Mazda(crossover not sure of model) runs 0-30 IIRC they both spec 5-20. As I mentioned before we are forced to make decisions on every project based on "big brother guidelines" (FCC in my case)that could have an effect on our products.
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more. You could run MMO for motor oil to get through a warranty period !!
Are those mechanical engineers designing production engines for automobiles? If not, then they don't really know, do they? I must have missed class the day they taught oil selection for automotive engines in engineering school.
If you're not working in the automotive industry, then you don't know what an automotive engineer's job is. I've never been asked to design to a price point.
IF that is the case....I should not really have to explain to you the basis of retail/production costs equating to a price point to meet a specific tier of product (in this case model of vehicle and trim).
Based on your theory; "I am an electronics engineer and you are not, therefore You cant possibly understand the function of (lets say) an Oscilloscope !"
My point: physics are linear all across the board.... Laws of science do not change weather your designing a rotary switch or automotive engine.
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Originally Posted By: wsar10
My point: physics are linear all across the board.... Laws of science do not change weather your designing a rotary switch or automotive engine.
For the uneducated--what laws of science apply to (assuming this is topic) using 0/5W-20 oils as specified by the manufacturer versus (in theory) those same engineers choosing to deviate and using another grade of oil?
My point: physics are linear all across the board.... Laws of science do not change weather your designing a rotary switch or automotive engine.
For the uneducated--what laws of science apply to (assuming this is topic) using 0/5W-20 oils as specified by the manufacturer versus (in theory) those same engineers choosing to deviate and using another grade of oil?
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: wsar10
My point: physics are linear all across the board.... Laws of science do not change weather your designing a rotary switch or automotive engine.
For the uneducated--what laws of science apply to (assuming this is topic) using 0/5W-20 oils as specified by the manufacturer versus (in theory) those same engineers choosing to deviate and using another grade of oil?
different discussion but in the same post and thread.....
My above quoted statement was in regard to the assumption that you have to be an "automotive" engineer to understand (with respect to the conversation) why decisions are made and how they can or cannot affect an engine.
Originally Posted By: wsar10
My point: physics are linear all across the board.... Laws of science do not change weather your designing a rotary switch or automotive engine.
For the uneducated--what laws of science apply to (assuming this is topic) using 0/5W-20 oils as specified by the manufacturer versus (in theory) those same engineers choosing to deviate and using another grade of oil?
different discussion but in the same post and thread.....
My above quoted statement was in regard to the assumption that you have to be an "automotive" engineer to understand (with respect to the conversation) why decisions are made and how they can or cannot affect an engine.
Last edited:
Lmao! "Half shot". They use no oil to speak of, compression is good and never a CEL. How is it that they are half shot again?
Another made-up argument, now both those engines are half shot.
Originally Posted By: wsar10
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: wsar10
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more.
I'm really glad I you didn't tell anyone that about my cars. And I've been running 5W-20 in my 1MZ-FE since 200,000 miles, and 0W-20 in my 1NZ-FE since about 125,000.
You keep making stuff up to try and prove a point which has no merit.
Or your just simply to dense to understand the point !!
your evidence is "I switched to a lighter oil after the motor was half shot", your foolish for multiple reasons in regard to that choice......
Another made-up argument, now both those engines are half shot.
Originally Posted By: wsar10
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: wsar10
an engineers job in the automotive industry is to design equipment based on a price point that will last for the tenure of a warranty and nothing more.
I'm really glad I you didn't tell anyone that about my cars. And I've been running 5W-20 in my 1MZ-FE since 200,000 miles, and 0W-20 in my 1NZ-FE since about 125,000.
You keep making stuff up to try and prove a point which has no merit.
Or your just simply to dense to understand the point !!
your evidence is "I switched to a lighter oil after the motor was half shot", your foolish for multiple reasons in regard to that choice......
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