Rotella HD explanation for gas engine

[Black Thunder]

I have been doing a bit of searching about running a Diesel Engine OIl in my gas engine and couldn't exactly find an answer to any negative effects that additional additives would do to the engine components of gas engine, so i visited the Rotella site (oil i will be running) and emailed them.

my orig message.
"I'm wanting to switch to an Heavy Duty oil in my Gas-powered vehicle.
I was just wondering if any of the additional additives would have any
negative effects on any of the vehicle's components, specifically the
catalytic convertors"


Response from Rotella.
"With the introduction of API specification SM in late 2004, it was required that
the phosphorous content of motor oil be lowered to prolong the life of catalytic
converters in vehicles so equipped. Common anti-wear additives used in engine
oils are sulfur-phosphorous compounds, and the amount of zinc may be decreased
in SM-rated oils, as well.

Products like Shell Rotella T oils are formulated primarily for diesel engine
vehicles that don't (at least not yet) have catalytic converters, and contain
higher levels of phosphorous and zinc than gasoline-only engine oils. Hence,
Shell Rotella T oils only meet the API SL (and earlier) specifications for
gasoline engines.

If you want to discuss this further, please call us at 1-800-231-6950. Thank you
for your interest in shell products."


So what my take on this, is that its ok to use the product if your engine is specified to use SL and earlier specifications, and not to be used on newer vehicles that are specified to use SM rated oils.

 

[55Test]

First off, what year is the car you're considering this oil for? In regards to this:

"Response from Rotella.
"With the introduction of API specification SM in late 2004, it was required that
the phosphorous content of motor oil be lowered to prolong the life of catalytic
converters in vehicles so equipped. Common anti-wear additives used in engine
oils are sulfur-phosphorous compounds, and the amount of zinc may be decreased
in SM-rated oils, as well."

I believe the main concern of updating oil to the SM specification is manufcaturers concern over catalytic converter lognevity in response to certain AW adds. Basically, if any oil is burned, some of those AW adds can pollute the converter, making it less efficient at removing pollutants, or can possibly (slim chance in h3ll, IMO) 'kill' the converter. Since manufacturers have to gauruntee that their vehicles will only emit so many pollutants for, what, 8 years or so, they want to see that the converter is running at peak efficiency for as long as possible.

 

[beanoil]

Sometimes, in the vast cosmos, two unrelated events collide to produce a third, seeming unrelated event. What do emissions testing and HD oils have in common? Most states that do emission testing are migrating to plugging into the OBD-II port and scanning the ECU, rather than doing actual sniffs from the tailpipe. The test is quicker, and, they say, more accurate. The other reason is to shift the burden of pollution right back on the manufacturers lap. They design, and produce a product sold under the guise of being compliant with guidelines and laws as far as safety, and emissions, so if their system isn't calling a fault (CEL) with the emissions system of a given car, it must be in compliance, right?
Any BITOGGER knows that it would be really tough to kill a cat with HD oils, even if that sucker burned some oil. But manufacturers can not take that chance. The latest version of SM oils blow their horns about "protecting emissions systems",
and oil blenders/manufacturers are reducing the amount of catalyst antagonizers (ZDDP) in the latest SM blends to help insure that the kitties stay safe, and vehicles don't pollute from a P poisoned cat. The lack of actual sniffing could mean that more vehicles will have higher emissions, so the SM oils help the manufacturers hedge their bets that the cat will be efficient enough to meet a pollution guideline. OBD-II systems really don't monitor post cat exhaust all that well. The post cat O2 sensor can be almost dead, and not trip a CEL, or vice versa, the cat can be toast, and as long as a reasonable difference is seen between the pre cat O2, and it's brother downstream, the ECU is happy, and no CEL is lit. There are a whole host of other things that will trip a CEL before the cat will.

 

[Black Thunder]

Thanks for the responses guys.


that really shed some light on the subject.

 

[brianl703]

Ford issued a TSB on some vehicles because they're getting catalyst efficiency codes (P0420/P0430) even when the catalyst is fine.

The fix is new firmware.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

firmware? What's that, a bypass of the signal?

The whole thing is a bunch of baloney. I understand that the goverment wanted automotive catalytic convertors a reasonable amount of time, anbd most of them do. But this has caused a knee jerk reaction by the automakers where they want to cutt certain antiwear adds while doing nothing for the main cause of death.. consumption.

 

[javacontour]

Just one anecdotal datapoint here. I live in an area of IL that has emissions testing. My 1994 Geo Prizm with 1798xx miles on the original catalytic converter just passed the IM240 emissions test at the 105 second fast pass mark.

Now, this vehicle certainly didn't get SM oil. I think I still don't have any SM oil.

Yet the cat has lasted nearly 12 years and nearly 180K miles.

My CO was at least 1/2 the allowable limit and the HC was about 85-90% of the max allowed.

What's the concern about killing catalytic converters? Seems unwarrented to me.

T

 

[Greaser]

My vehicles have had BETTER E test results since going to a HDEO a couple of years ago.

 

[C.O. Jones]

The main reason I run deisel oil (Delo 400) in my gas Saab is because, with the advent of SM oils, the anti-wear additives have been reduced. I care about the longevity of the moving parts in the motor, not the longevity of a cat.

If you look at the VOA (virgin oil analysis) threads, you will see that most deisel oils have 2 times or more of the anti-wear and anti-oxidant additives of car oils, including very expensive synth oils.

 

[the_oil_dealer]

I care about the longevity of the moving parts in the motor, not the longevity of a cat.

LOL - no kidding huh? The kind of backwards mentality these corporations have is unbelievable.

 

[Gary Allan]

Does anyone know or remember how long the SL rating was valid in all cars? That should give you a clue to any notion that it had any real impact upon catalyst condition.

It's kinda like lowering the DUI limit from .1 ..to .08. Only the reg moved HDEO into the "criminal" status ..not its behavior.

 

[the_oil_dealer]

quote:

---

Hmmmm.....

Obviously, some here don't live in areas that require regular emissions testing as a prerequisite to licence a vehicle for road use.

the_oil_dealer, how ironic, eh?

---

I live in one such area. For some reason cars have survived before SM and passed emissions fine before... unless they burn tons of oil, then we have serious emissions problems then, aside from a poisoned cat

 

[Bryanccfshr]

The inferrence that using an SL oil would cause failure in emmisions testing would be laughable, if I didn't think the poster was serious.

[ February 22, 2006, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Bryanccfshr ]

 

[kanling]

From Shell's response, it doesn't sound like we'll be seeing any HDEOs with an SM rating anytime soon.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

There is no differnce between vehicles requireing SL and SM oil catalytic converters. They have been using 3 way converters for a while now. What is different is that certain car makers wanted lower levels of these elements to save them from having to cover replacement cost of catalytic convertors. They get to influence the oil formulations so they do it to their advantage as seeen in this web page


There are three specified major emission control components,
covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use on 1995
and newer vehicles:

* Catalytic converters.

* The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU).

* The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD).


One should weigh the cost of a catalytic converter

when using SL oils if the automaker specifies SM rated oil for your vehicle. They would not have put this requirement in there if they weren't looking for a way to deny culpability in emmissions warranty claims.
If you are only required to have SL or older specced oil then the world is your oyster and you have choices.


I wouldn't be surprised to see some makers sending out TSB's about oil recomendations on cars that fall into the warrantied category but can use older oils specs. Kind of hard to reach a DIY type oil changer with a TSB though.

 

[Black Thunder]

hmmm i guess i may be switching to all HD oil for my vehicles.


either that or putting in an addtive to boost the anti-wear properties.

 

[Iain]

quote:

---

I care about the longevity of the moving parts in the motor, not the longevity of a cat.

LOL - no kidding huh? The kind of backwards mentality these corporations have is unbelievable.

---

Hmmmm.....

Obviously, some here don't live in areas that require regular emissions testing as a prerequisite to licence a vehicle for road use.

the_oil_dealer, how ironic, eh?

 

[Ray H]

Well, I've read eleven allegations, but where's the actual evidence SM oils require additional ZDDP to protect engines? I'm certainly not seeing it in wear metal amounts in posted UOAs of engines run on unadulterated SM oils over the past year.

 

[Black Thunder]

would this reduction of anti-wear additives move some conventional oils out of the 5,000 oci range?

 

[lawman in sc]

I have a 93 F-150,4.9 in-line 6.I have always used Havoline 10-40.It has 165,000 miles on it.No oil consuption at all.I friend reccommended that I switch to Rotella 15w40.He said that my truck should run forever if I do switch.I change the oil and filter every 4000 miles.Oponions please.